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-   -   New Piston Rings 3J2-11610-00-00 STD (http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46538)

3Phase 04-28-2017 10:40 PM

New Piston Rings 3J2-11610-00-00 STD
 
I've seen some discussions about the piston rings from eBay seller cruzinimage.
I snagged a couple of STD sets and decided to measure one pack to see if they'll work.

1982 Yamaha XJ1100J Piston Rings

New 3J2-11610-00-00 rings:

Partzilla $49.61 EACH! * 4 = $198.44

eBay cruzinimage_co $42.95 for a set of 4


To keep it simple, I'll put the measurements here at the top and follow with the pictures.

OEM 1982 XJ1100J piston rings after 60,00 miles
Top ring 1.177 mm x 3.084 mm (steel)
2nd ring 1.477 mm x 3.014 mm (cast)
Upper and Lower oil rails 0.454 mm x 2.376 mm
Oil pack height thickness 2.704 mm


New 3J2-1610-00-00 STD rings from cruzinimage
All rings are coated
Top ring 1.182 mm x 3.013 mm (Hopefully steel)
2nd ring 1.487 mm x 3.080 mm (cast)
Upper and Lower oil rails 0.462 mm x 2.24 mm
Oil pack thickness 2.750 mm

It looks like the new rings will work just fine!


OEM XJ1100 rings with 60,00 miles on them

http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/a...psn3ceyyso.jpg


I discovered that the Top ring is steel and the 2nd ring is cast.

http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/a...psdpcglf9j.jpg


Wear example from #2 piston's rings

http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/a...psdmcnkxah.jpg

http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps3ck2vnvx.jpg



New! 3J2-11610-00-00 STD piston rings from cruzinimage_co

http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/a...psbtgozokn.jpg

http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps9cyo0vnx.jpg

http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/a...psl0p2xnrw.jpg

http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps7nuz1nq8.jpg

http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/a...pszpjnfngo.jpg


New ring measurements

Top

http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/a...pshoidwlx3.jpg

http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/a...psxrujvnp6.jpg


2nd

http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps8rnzn62h.jpg

http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/a...psa82a1c50.jpg


Oil ring pack

http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/a...psu4bl5ma1.jpg


Oil rails

http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/a...psfa8ozkbu.jpg

http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/a...pspeuqflzi.jpg


XJ1100 rings after 60,000 miles

Top

http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps1o0mhnjy.jpg

http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps9szdgtsd.jpg


2nd

http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/a...psb7tr6uel.jpg

http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/a...pswxhfifmb.jpg


Oil ring pack

http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/a...psdicmndur.jpg


Oil rails

http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps0v0ubxgi.jpg

http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/a...psbj6f2j4n.jpg


XJ1100J ring specifications

http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/a...psncppxqrx.jpg

IanDMacDonald 04-29-2017 04:46 AM

Will u be installing these?

3Phase 04-29-2017 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IanDMacDonald (Post 497665)
Will u be installing these?

Yes.

I gleeped the new Yamaha rings I bought for my '80G engine so I still have the 80G and my '79SF to assemble after I get the XJ11 put back together.

I'd planned for rebuilds ahead of time and bought a couple of ring sets on eBay along with some bearings and other stuff. The rings turned out to be 4th oversize when I tried to use them, that was part of the failure fiasco that began when I had to reuse the rings in my '80G for the Colorado rally, this time around I measured the rings when they arrived instead of stashing them on the back of the shelf.

skids 04-29-2017 12:49 PM

Nice write-up Scott.

skids 04-29-2017 12:51 PM

I thought standard sized ring sets were unobtainable.

3Phase 04-29-2017 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skids (Post 497679)
I thought standard sized ring sets were unobtainable.

I think Yamaha may renew/reorder parts on their own schedule and the prices change with another schedule that's similar to George Carlin's infamous "Alimony Dart Board."
For example, XJ1100 air filter prices were totally insane last year but now they've gone down and they're just ridiculous. :rolleyes:
Maybe they'll get a new batch of starfish washers in for less than $100 a piece.


I dug up some older piston rings to check with my spiffy new Harbor Freight digital micrometer and found the rings I bagged up from the 100K mile + '79SF engine that was in "Bush".
The old Top and 2nd ring are both almost the same thickness and width even though the 2nd ring is cast iron and the ring groove is cut for a thicker ring.
I have no idea why but all four sets that came out of that engine are the same.
It must have been a very exciting time for that poor cast iron ring.

The older Top rings had a mark to show wich side goes up instead of the letters used on the later model rings but the mark on this ring doesn't show up in any pictures because it's been worn down.
The XJ spec. calls for a Top ring 1.2 mm thickness and the side clearance in the early 2H7 and later 3H5 piston ring grooves supports it.
This isn't bad wear for over 100K miles.

http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/a...psfd2fhlmv.jpg

The XJ spec. calls for 3 mm width.
If the older rings were originally closer to 3.08 mm wide then at 2.79 mm it's lost almost 0.3 mm.
If the older rings were closer to 3.01 mm then it's only lost about 0.2 mm.
Trying to get a consistent measurement for the ring width with that little ball adapter on the micrometer is harder than Chinese arithmetic.

http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/a...psad9zkpvk.jpg

It's a bummer that the only official chart that gives ring dimensions is in the XJ1100 factory manual after the ring design was changed. The XS1100 manual only gives ring end gaps and side gaps with no dimensions.

I'm going to measure and photograph one of the official Yamaha 3J2 ring sets before I put the pistons back in the XJ engine, then I can compare the new Yamaha rings with the new cruzinimage and old-style OEM sets.

3Phase 04-30-2017 12:19 AM

New Yamaha rings

Top ring 1.183 mm x 3.026 mm
2nd ring 1.480 mm x 3. 020 mm
Oil rail 0.456 mm x 2.242 mm
Oil ring pack 2.705 mm


3J2-11610-00-00 STD OEM rings

http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/a...psoxwxjjrf.jpg

Top ring

http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/a...psqtxtxbmo.jpg

http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/a...psi7ut5fqg.jpg


2nd ring

http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/a...psoeirikmz.jpg

http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/a...psrmqi6xon.jpg


Oil rail

http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/a...psboyzzdlj.jpg

http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/a...psin0hb5sv.jpg

Oil ring pack

http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/a...psm5tzspi4.jpg

kboehringer 04-30-2017 07:52 AM

Nice Write Up!
 
Scott,
Exceptional write-up!

I have used these rings in two of my three "active" XS11's with a third set waiting for my time to install. Although I did NOT do the elaborate pre-check and comparisons to OEM that you did, I found the rings to be very comparable to OEM so I slapped 'em in. Since the OEM's were nearly unobtainium, I figured I had little choice anyway...... Ring gaps were well within spec on my machines following a light flex hone so I just rolled with it.

Great and consistent compression on all cylinders to like new levels with no oil loss between changes on the machines I've completed. At a little over $40 a set this is a no-brainer.


Thanks to your write up, I suspect there will be a bunch more of these coming out of China.

Sincerely,

3Phase 04-30-2017 01:03 PM

Thanks, Kurt, new tools are fun!

Cruzinimage is in Japan, is he selling Chinese rings? :D The packaging is better for these than the 4th over rings I bought by mistake, they were just sitting in their little white boxes with no wrapper.

I am still trying to figure out why Yamaha used two compression rings with the same dimensions but cut the 2nd groove for a thicker ring. I'm not a ringologist so I'm left wondering how in blazes it worked that way without demolishing the 2nd ring and groove.

CaptonZap 04-30-2017 08:33 PM

Yikes! The chart says that the limit for ring side clearance is .0059 inches.
Talk about ring slap!!!!
The top one, being steel, probably wouldn't break, but with that much clearance with a cast ring, you would think that it would snap. :confused:

CZ

3Phase 04-30-2017 11:10 PM

Pfft. Six thousandths? :rolleyes:

I just checked one of the old '79 cast 2nd rings and it's slightly thinner than the uncoated steel Top ring with a 1.172 mm thickness.

There's about 0.33 mm or slightly over 0.013" side clearance in the 2nd groove of a 2H7 and a 3H5 piston.

Yeah....


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