Home arrow Forums



Go Back   XS11.com Forums > Idle Talk Forum > XS11/XJ11 Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-19-2012, 08:06 PM
copeland3300 copeland3300 is offline
XSive
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Ft George G Meade, Maryland
Posts: 50
Bike Restoration Attempt - Need Some Advice

Hey All,

This is my first post, so I hope I'm putting this in the right place, but if not, let me know where I should.

I recently bought 2 XS1100's from a guy who was trying to move. They were kept outside for the last year, and they look like it. I lived about 45 miles from him, so it was a trek to get there and had no way to bring the bikes home (he didn't say bring a trailer). So, for $800, I got both bikes and delivery to my home. OK, now I'm an XS1100 owner. Exciting!

One is a 1979 XS1100SF, and the other is a 1980 XS1100G. This is based on the serial number, 3H3 and 3H5. The fairings and the hard bags on the '79 were too gone to save, so I tossed them, so at this point both bikes look pretty close, aside from the tank. I bought the Yam service manual and the Clymer's manual; I figured between these two I could figure out anything that needed to be done. However, what they don't tell you, is how to take one that's been neglected and make it great.

My plan was to restore these to their former glory and make them my own along the way. The plan was to strip the frames, and sandblast off the paint and rust, but I think it's smarter to make sure the engine runs first. I also need to find a good way to de-rust the gas tank.

So I decided to open up the engine once I got most of the stuff off the bike and see how the cylinders looked, and to make sure they weren't rusted into oblivion. The cams look good from what I can tell, but the tops of the pistons and the cylinder heads I think look like they need some help.

So, that's why I'm coming to you all for some advice. Do you think this engine is toast, or is this what engines are supposed to look like after years of use?
What should I look for in the other parts of the bike to see how much work this is going to take? I have a general idea, but I don't really know the details.

Any help or suggestions or comments or tips would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for you time!

The bikes the day after I got them

After the first day of work

Almost just a frame and an engine

Engine internals
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-19-2012, 08:47 PM
BA80's Avatar
BA80 BA80 is offline
Doctor of XSology
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Tulsa, Ok
Posts: 9,780
Those cylinders and pistons don't look too bad at all. Does it spin over?

If It does you probably shouldn't have taken it apart until you checked how it ran. Now you have to buy one of those expensive head gaskets.

BTW.....do you still have the brackets and framework for the bags?
__________________
Greg

Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.

― Albert Einstein

80 SG Ol' Okie;79 engine & carbs w/pods, 45 pilots, 140 mains, Custom Mac 4 into 2 exhaust, ACCT,XS850 final drive,110/90/19 front tire,TKat fork brace, XS750 140 MPH speedometer, Vetter IV fairing, aftermarket hard bags and trunk, LG high back seat, XJ rear shocks.

The list changes.

Visit XS11.org too......
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-19-2012, 08:58 PM
WSL91's Avatar
WSL91 WSL91 is offline
XStremely XSive
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Quad Cities, IL
Posts: 427
My advice is to pick 1 bike and work on it. Try to shove it back together and get it running. Ride it for a while if possible and evaluate its condition. Once you have a good feel for everything then tear it apart fix it. Once you have it running and everything working then paint it. You don't want to be wrenching on a freshly painted bike. Take lots of pix as you'll be surprised when you go to assemble how many things didn't get recorded in your head. Good luck with the restoration, as tempting as it may be at this point don't tear them both down. We don't want a post from you next year selling 2 bikes in pieces

As far as de-rusting gas tanks I did a Honda tank with Kreme, followed the instructions to the letter and it was fine 3 years later when I sold it. The tractor guys are happier with Por 15 and Red Kote. Kreme can be dissolved after application with Acetone which always left me nervous. I didn't know that going in would not have bought the product.
__________________
1970? Honda Z50... gone
1974? Yamaha 100 Enduro... gone
1974 Honda CB200... gone
1981 Yamaha Virago 750... gone
1993 Honda Shadow 1100... gone
2008 Honda VTX 1800F
1982 Yamaha XJ1100J w/850 final, Raptor ACCT
1979 Yamaha XS1100SF "Chewey" Raptor ACCT

http://www.johnsoldiron.com
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-19-2012, 09:00 PM
mikubuilder mikubuilder is offline
XSive Maximus
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Westland, Mich.
Posts: 548
Hey there, and welcome...I'm no guru on those bikes by any means, but I've seen enough to say that so far, so good, on your end....If it was me, I would have tried to at least to try to get them running before stripping everything down to the frame; however, if money is no object, and you wanna have a nice project/restoration, then you will get them running regardless...there is a ton of info on everything possible on those bikes here that you will get all your questions answered, some of the guys here are original owners of those 30+ year old machines...

Some of the questions that need to be answered are: how many miles on those bikes, when was last known time when they ran, how PO'ed are they, etc.....

so fire away and ask questions, and use search in the forum for all your topics(so you don't repeat posts..), also check tech tips by Crazy Steve and TopCat

as to rust in the tank, there are many tricks, depending on severity....
__________________
Nick

1979 XS11 F,Yamaha fairings w/hard bags, TC's fuse box, K&N air filter

1982 Virago 750 (it's alive!)

1979 XS 11 F, Windjammer IV, Samsonite luggage cases(another rescue)
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-19-2012, 09:56 PM
crazy steve crazy steve is offline
XS-XJ Guru MODERATOR
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Beautiful outer Yelm, WA
Posts: 7,932
Quote:
Originally Posted by BA80 View Post
If It does you probably shouldn't have taken it apart until you checked how it ran. Now you have to buy one of those expensive head gaskets.
+1 on that. These motors are pretty bulletproof, and that one you opened up looks good to me.

Here's what I'd do; reinstall the head, reusing the head gasket as long as it didn't tear anywhere. Run a compression test (that's always the first thing I do...) and see what kind of numbers you get. If you have any low cylinders, check the valve clearances; tight valves can reduce compression numbers a bunch. If you get decent numbers, then go ahead and replace the head gasket. By the way, it's cheaper to buy the whole gasket set...

So goes for the other motor/bike; don't tear it down until you know it needs it...
__________________
Fast, Cheap, Reliable... Pick any two

'78E original owner - resto project
'78E ???? owner - Modder project FJ forks, 4-piston calipers F/R, 160/80-16 rear tire
'82 XJ rebuild project
'80SG restified, red SOLD
'79F parts...
'81H more parts...

Other current bikes:
'93 XL1200 Anniversary Sportster 85RWHP
'86 XL883/1200 Chopper
'82 XL1000 w/1450cc Buell, Baker 6-speed, in-progress project
Cage: '13 Mustang GT/CS with a few 'custom' touches
Yep, can't leave nuthin' alone...
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-19-2012, 10:44 PM
jetmechmarty's Avatar
jetmechmarty jetmechmarty is offline
Master of XSology
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Coldwater, Mississippi
Posts: 7,156
tank derusting

Evapo Rust or Metal Rescue is the easy method for removing the rust and doing no additional harm to the metal. Just buy a gallon and pour it in the tank. Move the tank periodically to derust the whole thing.

If you don't want to spend the $20-25 you may use acid or the electrolysis method. You should be able to find the info with a quick search here. I have done all three, and I recommend the first option.


__________________
Marty (in Mississippi)
XS1100SG
XS650SK
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-20-2012, 01:02 AM
WMarshy's Avatar
WMarshy WMarshy is offline
XS-XJ Guru
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Mexico NY
Posts: 2,402
Quote:
Originally Posted by copeland3300 View Post
.....
I bought the Yam service manual and the Clymer's manual; I figured between these two I could figure out anything that needed to be done. However, what they don't tell you, is how to take one that's been neglected and make it great.

My plan was to restore these to their former glory and make them my own along the way. The plan was to strip the frames, and sandblast off the paint and rust, but I think it's smarter to make sure the engine runs first

So I decided to open up the engine once I got most of the stuff off the bike and see how the cylinders looked, and to make sure they weren't rusted into oblivion. The cams look good from what I can tell, but the tops of the pistons and the cylinder heads I think look like they need some help.

So, that's why I'm coming to you all for some advice. Do you think this engine is toast, or is this what engines are supposed to look like after years of use?
What should I look for in the other parts of the bike to see how much work this is going to take? I have a general idea, but I don't really know the details.

Any help or suggestions or comments or tips would be greatly appreciated.
Looks like you have two nice bikes to start with, why on earth you would go straight into taking them apart without hearing them run is beyond me. You even said you wanted to hear them run first but you just dove into the motor instead...
What do you expect the internals to look like on a 30+ year old bike? Judging from the overall condition of the bikes I wouldn't expect the engines to be trashed. Usually one starts with a compression test and /or a leak-down to get an idea of the health of an engine, not a visual on the cylinders...
__________________
'79 XS11 F
Stock except K&N

'79 XS11 SF
Stock, no title.

'84 Chevy K-10 "Big Blue"
GM 350, Muncie SM465, NP208, GM 10 Bolt with 3.42gears turnin 31x10.5 Baja Claws

"What they do have is an implacable, unrelenting presence and movement that bespeaks massive power lurking behind paint and chrome. They don't wail like a screeching ninja, the don't rumble like a harley. They just growl like a spactic, stressed out badger waiting to rip your face off and eat your soul." Trainzz~RIP~

Last edited by WMarshy; 06-20-2012 at 01:10 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-20-2012, 04:22 AM
James England's Avatar
James England James England is offline
XS-XJ Super Guru
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: North of England
Posts: 3,039
It was a bad move, stripping the engine before trying to start it. I'd put it back together and get it running before spending anything at all on it.

There are two types of restoration... one is taking a running bike and making it great. The other is taking a non-running bike and this is a different thing entirely. On the first option, you have the reassurance of knowing the thing works and you can establish early on what sort of money is involved in putting the engine right (if needed). You may find some catastophic problem which makes it non-viable to restore because engine work can be horrifically expensive.

If I found an engine to be blowing out clouds of oil smoke, or sounding like a bag of spanners, or with a hole in a piston, or just everything wrong with it etc, I wouldn't spend any money on it at all. It isn't cost-effective or rewarding. The engines are not rare enough to warrant doing this anyway. You can buy a complete engine for 10% of what all that work would cost.

On recent restorations I've done, I always make sure the engine runs reasonably well first. Then I know it's worth spending on the cosmetics, frame powder coating, chrome etc....safe in the knowledge that the bike works. A full restoration can cost $5,000 or more depending on how far you go, so the last thing I'd want is a lovely looking bike that sounds terrible, or doesn't run etc. That's a bad point to discover that the gearbox was ruined (reason for bike being off road in the first place) or seized or whatever!
__________________
XS1100F 1980 European model. Standard. Dyna coils. Iridium plugs. XS750 final drive (sometimes). Micron fork brace. Progressive front springs. Geezer regulator/rectifier. Stainless 4 into 2 exhaust. Auto CCT (Venturer 1300) SOLD. New project now on the go. 1980 European model.

Last edited by James England; 06-20-2012 at 04:26 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-20-2012, 05:28 AM
xs11lover's Avatar
xs11lover xs11lover is offline
XS-XJ Guru
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Montoursville Pa
Posts: 1,431
I've always wanted an 80 G. I think you should treat those parts you are pulling off with care, #1 it's really hard to find original tanks and bags ect, and if you are not going to use them yoiu could sell them, if they are not too bad......too bad is in the eye of the buyer....I don't see much wrong with those bags...I hope they are still around the shop. I haven't read all of the comments, but running the bike would be the first thing I would want to do, then make sure the trani is in good working order. If those are good the rest is pretty easy.

Remember, alot of those parts are hard to get, in good shape, don't throw anything away.
__________________
79 XS11 Special (Lazarus)
80 XS850 Special (Old Faithful)
80 XS11 Standard sorta stock (Beatrice)
79 DT 100
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-20-2012, 06:42 AM
natemoen's Avatar
natemoen natemoen is offline
Master of XSology
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Fargo
Posts: 8,617
Welcome! 2 nice looking bikes to start with. I agree with everyone else but thats where I will leave that.

I am a bit sad about those bags. I would have probably bought them from you cause I am desperately looking for a set!
__________________
Nathan
KD9ARL

μολὼν λαβέ

1978 XS1100E
K&N Filter
#45 pilot Jet, #137.5 Main Jet
OEM Exhaust
ATK Fork Brace
LED Dash lights
Ammeter, Oil Pressure, Oil Temp, and Volt Meters

Green Monster Coils
SS Brake Lines
Vision 550 Auto Tensioner

In any moment of decision the best thing you can do is the right thing, the next best thing is the wrong thing, and the worst thing you can do is nothing.

Theodore Roosevelt
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 06-20-2012, 07:20 AM
jetmechmarty's Avatar
jetmechmarty jetmechmarty is offline
Master of XSology
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Coldwater, Mississippi
Posts: 7,156
Hey guys, instead of crying over spilled milk, let's help get these bikes back on the road. All is not lost. These may both turn out great!
__________________
Marty (in Mississippi)
XS1100SG
XS650SK
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 06-20-2012, 08:58 AM
CaptonZap CaptonZap is offline
XS-XJ Guru
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Denver
Posts: 1,746
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetmechmarty View Post
Hey guys, instead of crying over spilled milk, let's help get these bikes back on the road. All is not lost. These may both turn out great!
Yeahbutt,
Down the road, some new guy may read this thread, before he tears a complete engine apart, and save him self a lot of head ache.
So I'm on it too, it was a bad move to take the head off before compression testing indicated it was necessary.
That said, the advice to put it back together and check it out is good advice.
If you don't have the tools, you shouldn't be tearing it apart, 'cause you won't have the tools to put it back together properly.
So beg, borrow, or steal a set of differential pressure gauges, or at least a compression gauge, and see what the numbers tell you.
Good luck, CZ
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 06-20-2012, 09:42 AM
fredintoon's Avatar
fredintoon fredintoon is offline
Master of XSology
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Saskatoon SK
Posts: 6,795
Quote:
Originally Posted by copeland3300 View Post
Hey All,
I recently bought 2 XS1100's from a guy who was trying to move. one that's been neglected and make it great.
Any help or suggestions or comments or tips would be greatly appreciated.
Hi David and welcome,
do you want an XS11 to ride or a Meccano set to play with?
Like they all said, the one you took apart, put it back together before you lose any of the parts or forget where they go.
Then see if either of them will start and run.
There's a procedure listed here someplace on how to get a neglected XS11 up and running.
Don't sweat low compression numbers until after running the bikes for a while as it takes time for parked engines to free up again.
When (or if) the bikes are running is the time to decide on what degree of restoration you want to do.
__________________
Fred Hill, S'toon
XS11SG with Spirit of America sidecar
"The Flying Pumpkin"
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 06-20-2012, 10:33 AM
sparks's Avatar
sparks sparks is offline
XSive
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Grants Pass, Oregon
Posts: 83
If the bikes havent been run for a good long while (over ayear) I would consider (on the one not yarded apart yet) pulling the plugs and squirting sone oil on top of the pistons and let it set for a while. I would also not use the starter to turn it over the first time... My experience is not with motorcycles but the thoery still holds true. It's rare for rings to adhere to cyl walls but it does happen and it could cost you a piston or two..

Lee
__________________
79 SF
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 06-20-2012, 10:37 AM
crazy steve crazy steve is offline
XS-XJ Guru MODERATOR
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Beautiful outer Yelm, WA
Posts: 7,932
Before poor copeland feels totally picked on, I'll say here that I don't worry about if the bike will run before tearing into it; I may try to see if it will run, but won't loose sleep if it doesn't. I will run a compression test to check the mechanical condition of the motor to see if that part is good in any case. You can also get a feel for how the bike was used/abused by pulling the motor covers and seeing how clean/dirty it is inside. You don't mention how many miles are on either bike (not too many on the one from seeing the cylinders) because that will enter into the equation, but with reasonable care these bike will easily go 50K+ miles without suffering major wear.

Both of your bikes look pretty decent cosmetically, I would expect that to be reflected in their mechanical condition. Motor overhauls are expensive as most parts are hard to find.
__________________
Fast, Cheap, Reliable... Pick any two

'78E original owner - resto project
'78E ???? owner - Modder project FJ forks, 4-piston calipers F/R, 160/80-16 rear tire
'82 XJ rebuild project
'80SG restified, red SOLD
'79F parts...
'81H more parts...

Other current bikes:
'93 XL1200 Anniversary Sportster 85RWHP
'86 XL883/1200 Chopper
'82 XL1000 w/1450cc Buell, Baker 6-speed, in-progress project
Cage: '13 Mustang GT/CS with a few 'custom' touches
Yep, can't leave nuthin' alone...
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
rebuild, restoration, restore

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:35 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Integrated by BBpixel ©2004-2019, jvbPlugin