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Old 01-20-2017, 03:01 AM
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Fields11789 Fields11789 is offline
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Can't find my shift issue in threads

So I've got this bike ready to go and licence. Just gave it a small ride up the drive and had an issue with the shifting so stopped and left it alone.

Shifting into 1st and 2nd was easy. Up into 3rd was pretty hard. Then when shifting down between 1st and 2nd the shifter kinda got caught? (Not sure if that is the right term) at neutral but was grinding as it was stuck there... scared the poop outta me.

Put it up on the centre stand and seems to shift just fine with a small wiggle of the rear wheel through all gears.

Sometimes neutral can be hard to find though.

Could it just be the fact that I wasn't going fast enough / revving high enough to cause the 3rd gear issue? Also perhaps I was a bit to light on the shifter? I'm not used to these old big bikes and have read on here that there is an art to riding them well. I'm not a novice rider but I am on these machines.

The neutral issue was the most concerning. Kinda felt like it didn't quite engage 1st and just hung there. Was easy to stop by lifting up in the lever back into 2nd.

I could select 3rd from standing and take off in 3rd. It's a bit confusing

Clutch adjustment? ( although I'm sure I did it spot on)
Me being a big ole sissy with it? (Possible)

Any pearls of wisdom would be great.
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Last edited by Fields11789; 01-20-2017 at 03:02 AM. Reason: Spelling
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Old 01-20-2017, 06:50 AM
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3Phase 3Phase is offline
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Pull the shifter linkage and the engine cover to check the shift drum and shift pawl alignment. Make sure the index marks on the shift drum and the shift pawl line up when the transmission is in 2nd gear.

There's a picture of the pawl and drum index marks in this thread:-
Grinding at 2nd gear

If the alignment is good then you may have bent/worn shift forks in the transmission or you're shifting like a big ole sissy.
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Old 01-20-2017, 09:34 AM
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My first suggestion is to go ride it again, shifting like you mean it. Being light on the shift with these bikes can get you a false neutral between gears. I hate when hard on it, hit a false neutral, then watch your tach needle smack the top stop of your gauge past the 10k rpm.

If it still does it, what Scott is saying.... Pull off your shifter lever and remove the cover that is behind it. On center stand, you won't need to drain the oil. The red lines in this pic are the dots and lines he's saying should all line up if the bike is in 2nd gear.





If the problem persists, what I think is going on is you have some shift pins bent or coming out. This pic shows the shift pins on the end of the shift drum Scott referred to. It has a funny couple of washers with tabs/arms that hold these pins in place and it's easy for these little tabs to get bent and let the pins move, bend, or drop out.




If it's missing a pin and it's not there in that cover you just pulled off, it'll be in your oil pan. If the tabs are just bent and the pins misplaced, you can usually just tap the washer back into shape after reinstalling the pins.

If everything under the shifter cover looks good, the next thing to look at, in my opinion, would be the shift forks being worn or bent. Those will be a bit more involved. Be hoping for messed up pins. Being tough to get into neutral can be normal for these bikes. Grinding gears is not, unless trying to shift from a false neutral into gear while moving. Then lots of grinding and grimacing.
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Try your hardest to be the kind of person your dog thinks you are.

You can live to be 100, as long as you give up everything that would make you want to live to be 100!

Current bikes:
'06 Suzuki DR650
*'82 XJ1100 with the 1179 kit. "Mad Maxim"
'82 XJ1100 Completely stock fixer-upper
'82 XJ1100 Bagger fixer-upper
'82 XJ1100 Motor/frame and lots of boxes of parts
'82 XJ1100 Parts bike
'81 XS1100 Special
'81 YZ250
'80 XS850 Special
'80 XR100
*Crashed/Totalled, still own

Last edited by trbig; 01-20-2017 at 09:37 AM.
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Old 01-20-2017, 05:18 PM
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Fields11789 Fields11789 is offline
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Thanks for the advice gents.

I will pull the shifter cover today and check it out.

Hopefully the problem is just me being a sissy with it or in the alignment.

I remember checking the shift forks after pulling the tranny to see how well the PO had done the 2nd gear fix. The forks looked a bit worn but not noticibly bent or damaged. I would really rather not go digging around in there again. I do all my work on the centre stand which makes it a painful job to say the least.

If all looks good inside the cover I will re adjust the clutch (just to make sure) take it for another quick spin and see what happens.
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Old 01-20-2017, 06:44 PM
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Looks like I need to get the pan oil off and look for the pin?
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  #6  
Old 01-20-2017, 06:51 PM
motoman motoman is offline
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Also, as trbig stated, do NOT forget to check alignment marks when in second gear. Out of alignment will cause an array of shifting issues as will clutch incorrectly adjusted. Clutch adjustment is FIRST done at throw-out bearing while cable is unattached at lever, THEN the lever/cable adjustment.
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Old 01-20-2017, 06:59 PM
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[IMG][/IMG]
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Old 01-20-2017, 09:28 PM
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Your star washer looks like it might be bent so bad that the tab breaks off when you try to bend it back. I don't know if anyone has come up with a fix on that yet. Boats.net shows to have a new one, but a lot of the time when you go to actually order from there, it'll say not in stock.

http://www.boats.net/parts/detail/ya...561-00-00.html


On a total different tangent.. while looking on Ebay for the washer, I found one of the washer headed bolts for the other end of the shift drum. Not a bad idea to pick one of these up for a spare. This is one of those things that makes it into my repair kit on every trip.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Yamaha-T...lWfsvF&vxp=mtr
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Try your hardest to be the kind of person your dog thinks you are.

You can live to be 100, as long as you give up everything that would make you want to live to be 100!

Current bikes:
'06 Suzuki DR650
*'82 XJ1100 with the 1179 kit. "Mad Maxim"
'82 XJ1100 Completely stock fixer-upper
'82 XJ1100 Bagger fixer-upper
'82 XJ1100 Motor/frame and lots of boxes of parts
'82 XJ1100 Parts bike
'81 XS1100 Special
'81 YZ250
'80 XS850 Special
'80 XR100
*Crashed/Totalled, still own
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  #9  
Old 01-20-2017, 09:37 PM
motoman motoman is offline
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Alignment looks good, but missin' a pin AND the ear on washer is definitely fubared! That HAS to be replaced along with eared washer(washer and ear are hard, and will not straighten...will just break off). If that pin is not in engine case(first look in that recessed area of engine case since cover is off), it also may be in bottom of oil pan. Myself, had one of those pins ate up into slivers when it went through tranny gears.
The shift pawl pin is still available, but if I remember correctly the eared washer is NA since approx. 3yrs. ago. Sure there are some members you could aquire some from.....maybe even the pin.
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  #10  
Old 01-20-2017, 11:52 PM
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Fields11789 Fields11789 is offline
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I could not locate the pin in the side cover so I will drain the oil (again) and have a look in there. I might try using a string magnet in the oil pan to see if I can pin point where it is and fish it out with a long flex pick up magnet. Not likely.

A local wrecker around here has an xs laying around so I picked up the pins and eared star washer for about $15.

When in 2nd the line on the drum and pawl does not line up as perfectly as in the pics from trbig. Is that ok or is that something I can adjust?

As for the washer head bolt, I definitely will look into a spare. Is that something that can go bad?
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  #11  
Old 01-21-2017, 12:28 AM
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donebysunday donebysunday is online now
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Star

That star that retains the pins gets bent before the 2nd gear fix is done (the po should have seen and bent back into place ?).
The star gets bent by the gears wanting to slip out/push out.
I wonder if the star was bent back and is now being pushed out by the gears still ?
Let's not go there yet.

FELLOW XSERS could a small tact weld in the 90 bend of the star arm re-enforce it ?

That pin hopefully is stuck on the drain plug magnet ?

Done

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fields11789 View Post
I could not locate the pin in the side cover so I will drain the oil (again) and have a look in there. I might try using a string magnet in the oil pan to see if I can pin point where it is and fish it out with a long flex pick up magnet. Not likely.

A local wrecker around here has an xs laying around so I picked up the pins and eared star washer for about $15.

When in 2nd the line on the drum and pawl does not line up as perfectly as in the pics from trbig. Is that ok or is that something I can adjust?

As for the washer head bolt, I definitely will look into a spare. Is that something that can go bad?
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Old 01-21-2017, 12:04 PM
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On the other end of that shift drum, there's a thick star plate with high/low spots on it and a spring loaded detent pin that follows that. There's no adjustment to it. If the lines on the shift pawl and the shift drum aren't aligned exactly, the only thing I can think of for a reason would be bent shift forks holding the drum out of alignment.

When the gear problem arises on these bikes, people that don't know better try to hold the bike in gear using the shifter lever and their foot. It causes wear/bending of the shift forks, bent/broken missing pins. Sound familiar?

Sorry to be the bearer of not good news, but I can't think of another reason for misalignment other than the star plate the detent rides on coming off. (I have had it happen before) But in that case, you can't shift gears at all. Sounds to me like you better become better friends with the wrecker guy and see how much he wants for the rest of the transmission. With what I am hearing so far of the P.O.'s work, it might not hurt to have another set of gears handy.
__________________
Try your hardest to be the kind of person your dog thinks you are.

You can live to be 100, as long as you give up everything that would make you want to live to be 100!

Current bikes:
'06 Suzuki DR650
*'82 XJ1100 with the 1179 kit. "Mad Maxim"
'82 XJ1100 Completely stock fixer-upper
'82 XJ1100 Bagger fixer-upper
'82 XJ1100 Motor/frame and lots of boxes of parts
'82 XJ1100 Parts bike
'81 XS1100 Special
'81 YZ250
'80 XS850 Special
'80 XR100
*Crashed/Totalled, still own

Last edited by trbig; 01-21-2017 at 12:07 PM.
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  #13  
Old 01-21-2017, 10:07 PM
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TopCatGr58 TopCatGr58 is offline
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Hey Fields, and Tod,

Okay, will refer to this photo already posted.


Now, look at the part that the shift lever fits onto, there's a spring and bolt/nut just below down there, that's where you can make the adjustment to position the shift pawl so that the drum and pawl marks can be re-aligned.

Scott/3Phase and I talked a good while back about a way to MOD the shift drum star plate since it's no longer available. We couldn't come up with a good technical reason why Yamaha made it that way with different length pins when the stress on them within the drum slot is the same since the slot is the same width, and the pins are the same diameter. SO...I theorized about getting a thick piece of steel plate, just cutting it into a washer/circle, will take some precise work to make the center mounting hole along with the other 2 alignment holes for that special V shaped outer washer. Then just use a grinder to grind the pins flush with the drum where they stick out, and then mount the modded washer onto the end of the drum.

Since you/Fields were able to find a spare unbent washer, then this is moot, but just wanted to throw that out there again.

T.C.
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Old 01-22-2017, 08:12 AM
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Fields11789 Fields11789 is offline
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Trbig- I'm very much contemplating buying up the rest of the parts from this wrecker so I have lots of spares!
The new washer and pins seems to have done the job. Shifts much nicer now.

TC- that's interesting what you say about the mod idea. I can't see why it wouldn't work. It's a very strange way of designing a retainer. Perhaps Yamaha designed the ears in the star washer in that way so they would withstand more force ? The shape of the ears would distribute the force differently and change the way pressure is applied on the washer from the pin.
How does that adjustment work? Do I just loosen the nut and rotate the actuator until it lines up?
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  #15  
Old 01-22-2017, 08:16 AM
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bikerphil bikerphil is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fields11789 View Post
How does that adjustment work? Do I just loosen the nut and rotate the actuator until it lines up?
Yes, loosen the nut, turn the adjustment screw until proper alignment, tighten down the nut.
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