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  #31  
Old 08-30-2018, 10:38 PM
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TopCatGr58 TopCatGr58 is offline
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My 2 cents

Hey Dan,

Scott/3Phase dissected the tranny and learned/postulated that the 2nd gear failure was more common with the early models that still had the kick starter gears. The later models without the kickstarter gears allows the 1st gear and such to wobble a bit more which often leads to the 1st gear going out First, but also often followed by the 2nd gear shortly thereafter...as what happened to my 81SH at around 50K miles.

I did the initial dremmel fix on both 1st/4th & 2nd/5th sets of gears in 2000 when I did my 1st rebuild. They held for some 25K miles, and not easy miles, little big bore kit, plenty of hard take offs, a few wheelies and such!

I decided to finally replace my BENT FRAME that I had gotten after my big wreck in '86, front end damage repaired by dealership, but they missed the bent frame neck, and I rode it for decades even after my initial rebuild in 2000.

So...did my 2nd rebuild 2016(16 years later) swapping frames and other custom work, but the bike/tranny had been working great. After 2nd rebuild, rode it to the XSSE and wouldn't you know it, the 1st gear started showing early signs of skipping again. Would have been nice to have known that while I had it tore down to frame to do the dremmel again. This time, because of some other mods=solid Urethane engine mounts and such, I couldn't flip the bike over, had to use a large wooden frame and hoist/wrench straps and bike lift to pull the front up to an almost 90 degree vertical wheelie stance to be able to have easy enough access to the tranny pan. Thankfully I was already experienced in pulling the the shift forks, countershaft while the engine was previously on it's FULL BACK, so I was able to work on the tranny in this upright position, but it definitely wasn't as easy! Took me several attempts/30+ minutes to be able to get the countershaft back INTO the tranny, and this was WITHOUT doing the washer swap.

Yes, grinding does get into the softer layer of the gears past the hardened surface, but that's part of why the EXACTNESS of the grinding ISN'T as critical compared to factory fresh. The pressure/stress of the engine torque will eventually compress/wear the dogs and slots into a level of evenness since they are softer than the OEM hardened surface. The Dremmel fix has been done on lots of bikes, and I have only seen 1 posted about a DOG actually fracturing/breaking off, but the poster admitted to grinding too much off of the dog as well as leaving a sharp corner where the crack was able to get started and occur.

So....IMHO, if your 80 has 50K or more miles on it, I would go ahead and perform the Dremmel on both 1st/4th and 2nd/5th gear sets and have peace of mind not needing to worry about having to go back into it after finishing your build just to have the gears start skipping! YMMV.

T.C.
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  #32  
Old 09-03-2018, 04:52 PM
dansmith65 dansmith65 is offline
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Thanks for the input everyone, I really appreciate it! This project is on hold at the moment; I've been putting off household projects for too long and need to play catch-up a bit. Will post again when I make some progress. At the moment, I'm leaning towards flipping, remove gears, inspect, possibly grind,
and attempt the washer swap.
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  #33  
Old 03-11-2019, 12:42 PM
dansmith65 dansmith65 is offline
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It's been a while, but I finally worked on the bike again. Got it safely flipped over:


I also got one shift fork, 5th gear, and the shift fork shaft out. The problem I'm having now, and what I'm hoping I can get some help with, is I can't get the next shift fork out. It will push down into the engine, but that doesn't seem to give enough clearance to get the countershaft assembly out.

I followed these instructions: The Second Gear Removal Procedure and Tranny Fix 1st and 2nd Gears Dremmel Technique. I have it in 4th gear. Here are pictures of it's current state: (the wire on the shift fork was just to hold it up so I could try and get a hold of it/remove it)


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  #34  
Old 03-11-2019, 01:12 PM
Ranger_xs1100 Ranger_xs1100 is offline
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oil pump

Hi Dan,

The one thing I noticed in your pictures right away is the oil pump is still in place. I would highly recommend removing that so that you have more room to work with the countershaft removal.

It's been awhile since I last did one of those transmission jobs but if I remember correctly...
If that shift fork is dropping down then it shouldn't be preventing the countershaft from lifting up and out. Just keep jiggling the gear assembly / countershaft around and the fork will either drop out of the way or partially lift up with the gears. Maybe that piece of wire is preventing the fork from dropping out of the way?

Good luck!
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  #35  
Old 03-11-2019, 01:42 PM
dansmith65 dansmith65 is offline
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Thanks for the feedback. I actually meant to ask about the oil pump, so I'm glad you mentioned it. I thought I would leave it in until it got in the way. At the moment, it's only slightly in the way of me getting a great grip on that shift fork.

The wire wouldn't have been causing problems with countershaft removal because it wasn't there when I was trying to remove the countershaft. I added the wire later when I switched efforts to attempting to remove the shift fork. Maybe I'll remove the wire, let the fork fall back and attempt to shimmy the countershaft out of there again. As best I could tell, it was binding on the shift fork, but it's difficult to say for sure what was keeping it in there. I'll take a picture of it in that state if I can't get it out this time.
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  #36  
Old 03-11-2019, 02:22 PM
dansmith65 dansmith65 is offline
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That did it! I got the countershaft assembly out (after taking the oil pump off). In hind-sight, I think my problem was with the shift forks. Fork #2 needed to move out of it's slot, so it could move toward 5th gear (down in this photo). That gave fork #3 enough space to fall down into the engine a bit more than before, which allowed the countershaft to move (down in this photo).

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  #37  
Old 03-11-2019, 03:36 PM
Ranger_xs1100 Ranger_xs1100 is offline
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Hooray!

Sometimes you just have to walk away from it for awhile and return to it with lots of patience and a few colorful choice words....

And getting it back in will be just as much fun!
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The link to my past and current projects:

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https://rucksackgrunt.wordpress.com/

...
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  #38  
Old 03-16-2019, 06:56 PM
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xs11lover xs11lover is offline
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Nice sg! I enjoyed the thread. Way to jump right in there. Iím sure I wouldnít have but I always do everything 3 times before I get it right. Best of luck to you on your project. It looks like youíre doing a fine job.
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  #39  
Old 03-16-2019, 09:14 PM
dansmith65 dansmith65 is offline
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Thanks for the words of encouragement! I agree; sometimes it takes a few failures until you get a "feel" for it. Like Bob said, in this case I just needed to walk away and try again another day!

It's a little scary taking a grinder to my gears, but I think I finished 1st/4th:



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  #40  
Old 03-19-2019, 03:48 PM
mschor mschor is offline
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Nice work Dan, I've had mine for 2 years now and it's still coming out with a little magic when i least expect it. It's been running great for a good long time now but only the past few days after yet another tune does it feel like the XS I've heard about.
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  #41  
Old 06-23-2019, 07:46 PM
blkryno blkryno is offline
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Smile gears

Hey All,
I've been away from the site for sometime. Life throws some big changes your way and it takes a little while to adjust and move on. I'm sure everyone here can relate. It's life. Any way what I really want to get to is this I have both a 79 and 81 Special and I want to do the second gear fix on them. Does anyone have at least the second gears available. I'd like to have the gears on hand to compensate for whatever learning curve I may have. Seems like it's slim pickings, but I thought I'd ask.

Blkryno

81 11 SH (83 Venture cct, Tkat fork brace on )
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66 Zuzuki 50 cc Original paint no dents anywhere

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Donít force it, finesse it.
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