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  #1  
Old 09-02-2019, 08:07 PM
Billbobow Billbobow is offline
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Connector wire problem

Ok here I am again. While attempting to diagnose
And then fix my fuel issue I have created another
Problem. While removing the tank it started to slip
I caught it but while doing that my hand put
Pressure on t connector that was on the right
Side of the frame. The wires came out.

I canít figure out how to include pictures. So I have to describe it.
Connector cas three contacts two parallel and one at a
right angle over the other Two. Normally when this happens
You just match up the colors and make a repair.
The wires are all white. This is a problem.

I have found the connector on the schematic bottom of the page
2/3 rds of the way across the page to the tight.
Three of the wires in one half of the connector go to
The stator coil. The three on the other half connector go to
another connector. The diagram and wiring get a little
complicated.
I donít know what to do. The two sets of wires go into wiring harnesses
And I canny trace them.
I need help. Anyone with an XJ manual want to help.
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  #2  
Old 09-02-2019, 09:38 PM
BillyRok BillyRok is offline
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I have an XJ wiring diagram and if we are looking at the same diagram, the connector with the 3 white wires are next to the brake fluid switch in the picture, and this connects the stator back to the wiring harness. My wire terminals inside the plastic connectors became corroded and everything got hot and melted together. I contacted Geezer at Oregon Motorcycle Parts and purchased some new terminals and plastic connectors. Here is a link to the repair (he refers to a 1975 Goldwing but it's the same repair for our bikes). If you look at his directions with each picture, you'll find where he says it doesn't matter how the white wires connect to each other. He also recommends packing the connectors with dielectric grease (making sure the metal terminals are shined up good with no corrosion)...You can research the dielectric grease debate on the site by doing a search. Still the terminals shouldn't have pulled out of the plastic connector so you'll need to bend the little locking tab out a tiny bit on each of them before inserting back into the connector to make sure they are locked in good. Good luck!

http://www.oregonmotorcycleparts.com/GWstatorplug.html
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1982 XJ1100, Ceramic Coated Headers, Raptor ACCT, Barnett Clutch Springs, Dremmel Fix, TC's Fuse Block, De-Linked S/S Brake Lines, 850 Final Drive, Yahman's YICS Eliminator, Pods, stock jets
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  #3  
Old 09-03-2019, 08:52 PM
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MPittma100 MPittma100 is offline
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Melted

Hi Billy, Improve your chassis grounds to direct battery grounds. Will prevent this problem from reoccurring. Poor (chassis) grounds cause resistance. Resistance causes heat. Heat melts plastic connectors.
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  #4  
Old 09-04-2019, 11:31 AM
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jetmechmarty jetmechmarty is offline
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The stator wires getting mixed up doesn't matter. Please DO NOT pack that connector with dielectric grease! That grease is an insulator and will cause you grief.
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  #5  
Old 09-04-2019, 10:24 PM
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Radioguylogs Radioguylogs is offline
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I'm with Marty.
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'79 XS1100SF 20k miles
'80 XS1100SG 42k miles
'81 XS1100H Venturer 35k miles
'79 XS750SF 15k miles
'84 Honda V65 Magna ? miles
'84 Honda V65 Magna 48k miles (parts bike)
'86 Yamaha VMAX 5k miles

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  #6  
Old 09-05-2019, 09:21 AM
CaptonZap CaptonZap is offline
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The reason the connector melts is that the metal to metal contact corrodes, which increases the resistance between the two parts, which creates heat, which increases the chemical action in the corrosion, causing more corrosion, which increases the heat, which .......... .. ..

The electrons are conducted through the metal to metal contact of the two parts. The grease is there to shield those contact points from oxygen and moisture. On a properly tensioned spade connection, the grease is wiped away from the metal to metal contact points, and insulating the metal from any extraneous electrical path to ground or corrosive action by the atmosphere.

Car makers use the grease in their connectors, even though the connectors have a rubber shield. Belt and suspender I suppose.

Geezer is correct when he recommends the grease.

A friend and I, while building a magnetizer for Lucas magnetos, made an ersatz test to determine if the grease caused any retardation of current flow. Using a megger and a low ohm meter, with ring terminals and 1/4 inch spade terminals, we found that there was no difference in the resistance in the greased or dry connection. There was some leakage to ground, when tested with the megger and submersed in ditch water, with the dry connection, but none when the exposed metal of either type of connector was covered with grease.

It is a good practice to look at the end of the female spade connector and see if the rounded ears have been spread by reason of rough handling. If so, a pair of pliers can be used to crimp them together so that it takes some effort to slide them on the male blade part. Grease them up, and you are good for the ages. Especially in humid environments.



CZ

Last edited by CaptonZap; 09-05-2019 at 09:28 AM.
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  #7  
Old 09-05-2019, 11:32 AM
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jetmechmarty jetmechmarty is offline
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CZ,
I'm not picking up what you're laying down. Ford packing connectors with grease certainly doesn't sway me. While I have no analytics to back my opinion, I am thoroughly convinced that using dielectric grease on a connector is bad news. Use it at your own peril.
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  #8  
Old 09-05-2019, 07:59 PM
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MPittma100 MPittma100 is offline
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Talking No Peril nun

Quote:
Originally Posted by jetmechmarty View Post
CZ,
I'm not picking up what you're laying down. Ford packing connectors with grease certainly doesn't sway me. While I have no analytics to back my opinion, I am thoroughly convinced that using dielectric grease on a connector is bad news. Use it at your own peril.
Hi Marty, as is normal, there are pros and cons for any usage of any particular product. Di-electric/silicone grease is not a bad thing. I have not experienced problems caused by this product. It has performed as advertised.

Not sure where that leaves us?

Mike
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1981 XS1100H Venturer
K&N Air Filter
ACCT
Custom Paint by Deitz
Geezer Rectifier/Regulator
Chacal Stainless Steel Braided Brake Lines
Chrome Front Rotor & Caliper Covers
Stebel Nautilus Horn
EBC Front Rotors
Limie Accent Moves On In 2015

Mike
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  #9  
Old 09-05-2019, 08:40 PM
BillyRok BillyRok is offline
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Some searching on the topic of dielectric grease turned this up, the writer seems to have a fair amount of experience in using it.

http://www.w8ji.com/dielectric_greas...ive_grease.htm
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1982 XJ1100, Ceramic Coated Headers, Raptor ACCT, Barnett Clutch Springs, Dremmel Fix, TC's Fuse Block, De-Linked S/S Brake Lines, 850 Final Drive, Yahman's YICS Eliminator, Pods, stock jets
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  #10  
Old 09-07-2019, 09:35 AM
CaptonZap CaptonZap is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetmechmarty View Post
CZ,
I'm not picking up what you're laying down.
Didn't think you would.
Quote:
Ford packing connectors with grease certainly doesn't sway me.
I'm sure you have a better handle on it than they do.
Quote:
I have no analytics to back my opinion, I am thoroughly convinced that using dielectric grease on a connector is bad news.
Some people believe in the tooth fairy with the same kind of analytics.
Quote:
Use it at your own peril.
What peril? The peril that my greased joint might corrode and melt the plastic?


You can lead a horse to water, but you can't .. . ..


My reason for the post was to inform those that aren't constrained by being employed by employers subject to FAA jurisdiction, thus able to exercise and act on logical thinking, that dielectric grease is a benefit to electrical connectors.
Believe it or don't.


CZ .

Last edited by CaptonZap; 09-07-2019 at 09:38 AM.
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  #11  
Old 09-07-2019, 02:48 PM
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skids skids is offline
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Dielectric grease on battery terminals is great. That grease in connector clips tends to collect a lot of dust and dirt when you have 2.5 miles of dirt road to access pavement.
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  #12  
Old 09-07-2019, 04:18 PM
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jetmechmarty jetmechmarty is offline
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The condescending remarks are not appreciated. I have nothing more to say.
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Old 09-09-2019, 09:50 PM
BillyRok BillyRok is offline
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Fwiw

I was at the NAPA store the other day and picked up a 5oz tube of what I was told was dielectric grease but it wasn't the gray Permatex tube I was used to seeing. This is Truck-Lite NYK-77 Corrosion Preventative Compound. On the back it says "NYK-77 is a specifically formulated non-conductive sealant and corrosion preventative for all types of electrical contacts and switches."

I decided to do a little experiment. I have 4 short extension wires about 4" long with bullet connectors on each end. I tested each one individually with my multimeter and all 4 showed zero resistance. I put a dab of the grease on a paper towel and stuck the multimeter leads into it and the reading showed an open circuit, no continuity at all. Then I put some grease on each of the leads, touched them together, and got a reading of zero resistance. Next I plugged all 4 of the wires together and tested for continuity, getting zero resistance again through the string of 4 wires. Finally I unplugged the wires and packed the female bullet connector of each wire with grease before plugging them all back together and retesting for continuity again, and again got a reading of zero resistance. Based on this crude experiment it seems the dielectric grease, though non-conductive, does not add any resistance through a connector that has been packed with the grease. Or am I mistaken and what I did proves nothing?

I go back to Geezer's instructions to pack the connectors from the stator to the harness with dielectric grease for worry free service. Then Len at XJ4ever.com sent me info about his bracket kit for mounting Dyna replacement coils and he recommended packing the coil towers with dielectric grease before connecting the plug wires to them.

Certainly this debate has gone back and forth over the years in several different discussions. I'm most assuredly NOT trying to stir things up, just interested in what is the best way treat these electrical connections on our bikes in an effort to avoid the many electrical problems that can occur down the road.
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1982 XJ1100, Ceramic Coated Headers, Raptor ACCT, Barnett Clutch Springs, Dremmel Fix, TC's Fuse Block, De-Linked S/S Brake Lines, 850 Final Drive, Yahman's YICS Eliminator, Pods, stock jets
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  #14  
Old 09-09-2019, 10:48 PM
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Radioguylogs Radioguylogs is offline
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My aversion to grease is the mess.

I bought a bike with greasy dirty corroded mess in some of the connectors and it was difficult to clean them up.

I haven't had any trouble with using the connectors the same way they came from the factory, so that happens to be my preference,... although I understand the points made by proponents.
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_________
'79 XS1100SF 20k miles
'80 XS1100SG 42k miles
'81 XS1100H Venturer 35k miles
'79 XS750SF 15k miles
'84 Honda V65 Magna ? miles
'84 Honda V65 Magna 48k miles (parts bike)
'86 Yamaha VMAX 5k miles

Previous
'68 Motoguzzi 600cc
'79 XS750SF 22k miles
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  #15  
Old 09-10-2019, 11:29 AM
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jetmechmarty jetmechmarty is offline
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Dielectric grease

Here's another professional opinion on dielectric grease. FWIW.

Quote:
Using Dielectric Grease on connectors.

A lot of people use dielectric grease on connectors. Some people mistakenly believe that dieletric grease is a conductor. In fact, it is just the opposite; it is an insulator. Dielectric grease is typically made of silicone grease.

As an insulator, dielectric grease is good for use on spark plug boots. This was one of the original applications on vehicles when the high-energy ignition systems came out. It can help insulate the connector and, in particular on a motorcycle where it can get wet, it waterproofs the spark plug boot. And, because it is silicone, it is fairly stable at high temperatures and won't affect the rubber and plastics.

So why would you put an insulator on a connector? The idea is that you use a thin layer. When you push the connector together the grease is pushed out of the way enough to get a connection and the surrounding grease then keeps out water and oxygen. The connector will be protected from the environment and less likely to corrode. Plus, the silicone is safe for the plastics and PVC insulation.

That sounds good, so far; so why not smear it on everything? Well there are a number of good reasons.

First, silicone grease outgases constantly. If the silicone gas gets near a connector or a contact, such as a relay, and there is a spark, the spark at the contact can create silicon dioxide. Some people even suggest that the silicone gas from dielectric grease can travel many feet through the unsulation on a wire and damage a contact on the other end. Omron states that even their sealed switches can be damaged by nearby silicone grease outgassing. Reference the following links for more info:

http://www.omron.com/ecb/products/pdf/en-d2vw.pdf

http://machinedesign.com/article/lub...-switches-1025

Second, it is an insulator. It can prevent contacts from touching. If you do use it, use a very thin layer.

Third, if you have a corroded connection, silicone grease will not help. In fact, it may make it worse. It can never improve anything. Dielectric grease will never make a poor connection better.

Fourth, it attracts dust and dirt and it hardens over time. This means that if you smear a lot of silicone grease on connectors you may see nearby relays, switches, or points fail later on. Since silicone grease does nothing at all to improve the connection and, in fact, may insulate the contacts in the connector increasing the resistance the connector may still fail.

So what do you do? Look for a contact enhancer/lube. While most contact cleaners are simple solvents that just wash the connector off there are contact enhancers that deoxidize the contact surface and actually work to lower the contact resistance (make a better connection). Most contact enhancers leave a lubricant behind that protects the metal and continue to deoxidize the metal and improve the connection. They can work to lower the resistance and make a better contact as time goes by. The best you can hope for from dielectric grease is that it seals it enough to not get worse. I have used Caig Deoxit on my bikes for a few years now. I first found out about this on my job when I had to correct an issue in a connector system that could not tolerate even 5 thousandths of an ohm of resistance drift. We had a connector in the field that had been improperly plated and was starting to drift, mostly in warm humid areas like Florida. Our testing showed that the Caig Deoxit could be a good long-term fix. We ended up using the Deoxit to stabilize the bad units until we could get corrected wiring harnesses built with the correct connectors. We also put a layer of Deoxit on the new parts to protect and keep them clean over their lifetime. This solved the drift issue that we had.

I still use a small amount of silicone grease on my spark plug caps. It helps to waterproof them and makes it easier to pull the cap off, but I use it in very small amounts and never near a relay or switch.
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