Home arrow Forums



Go Back   XS11.com Forums > Idle Talk Forum > XS11/XJ11 Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-26-2016, 11:11 AM
mesmeridicus mesmeridicus is offline
XSive
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Dayton, Ohio
Posts: 74
Precarious Journey: Forks, Wheel, or What?

Front tire went flat on me while I was riding the bike recently and I put her down. Luckily, I was in a neighborhood at the end of my trip and I wasn't going too fast.

Removed front wheel and took it to the shop that had mounted the tire last year. They told me the bead must've just gotten dirty (strange, since I'd put less than 200 miles on the tires) and that's what caused the leak.

Anyway, I reinstalled the front wheel myself. Unusually difficult, given that I've changed the rear wheel with ease. I did, however, leave the front fender off, as I liked how it looked.

Just took the bike on a trip from Dayton to north of Columbus and then all around near Athens with my cousins for a few days. Noticed that it felt precarious in turns, and was wallowing a bit. Like a wobble, but not in the handlebars. Found myself having difficulty keeping up with them as they were able to take turns with more speed and more smoothly than myself. I had one cousin ride the bike to see if it was just me lacking confidence since the drop, but he felt it too. Ever since I got home I've been trying to pinpoint the issue. I will note that I kept my tire pressure at spec throughout the trip, so this is not the issue. Additionally, the tires are still fairly new. Around 1000 miles, tops.

Could I have misaligned the forks or the wheel when I put it back on? The forks aren't noticeably bent, and neither is the wheel rim as far as I can tell. I've reinstalled the fender to see whether perhaps it's a lack of stiffness in the forks causing the issue.

Any help is appreciated.

Also, possibly related: does anyone who owns a 79 Special have a spacer on the outside of the forks, just inside the castle nut (castle nut >> spacer >> fork)? Wondering if I accidentally put it in the wrong place and it goes inside the forks. I can take a picture if necessary
__________________
79 SF
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-26-2016, 04:01 PM
MaximPhil MaximPhil is offline
XS-XJ Super Guru
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Mississauga, ON CANADA
Posts: 4,071
Hi mesmeridicus,
Corrosion of the wheel in the bead seating area is a quite common cause of a slow leak. Did the shop clean up that area or just remount?
I have had the valve stem leak too. Test with soapy water and a turn on the nut might seal it. if not replace it as the rubber gasket on the inside hardens over time. Mine is a Standard but it can be tricky to get the forks and calipers all lined up correctly. Over torque of the axle nut can upset the alignment too.
Has taken me 3 tries on occasion
After going down you need to check the forks straightness.
Many install a Fork Brace as the fender alone is not enough so put the fender back on. Check the wheel bearings too.
Glad you survived your tumble.
Phil
__________________
1981 XS1100 H Venturer ( Addie)
1983 XJ 650 Maxim
2004 Kawasaki Concours. ( Black Bear)
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-26-2016, 06:09 PM
ViperRon's Avatar
ViperRon ViperRon is offline
XS-XJ Guru
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Woodstock, VA
Posts: 1,058
Check your air pressure in tires if the gauge you use is bad and pressure is low especially with no fender support it can wallow like a pig in the corners.
__________________
To fix the problem one should not make more assumptions than the minimum needed.

Rodan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khm6...liHntN91DHjHiS
1980 G Silverbird
Original Yamaha Fairfing and Bags
1198 Overbore kit
Grizzly 660 ACCT
Barnett Clutch Springs
R1 Clutch Fiber Plates
122.5 Main Jets
ACCT Mod
Mac 4-2 Flare Tips
Antivibe Bar ends
Rear trunk add-on
http://s1184.photobucket.com/albums/z329/viperron1/
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-26-2016, 06:29 PM
BA80's Avatar
BA80 BA80 is offline
Doctor of XSology
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Tulsa, Ok
Posts: 9,861
Hmmmmm..........try holding one upright when your tire goes down at 70 - 80mph. Happened to me in Arkansas on the way to XS Southeast a few years back. Didn't go down but I saw every part of my life flash before my eyes in less than 30 seconds.

You post is a perfect example of why you need to stay on top of your tire pressure and a lesson to those that want to run around without a front fender.

We haven't heard much from those that delete the front brakes......

I wonder why?
__________________
Greg

Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.

― Albert Einstein

80 SG Ol' Okie;79 engine & carbs w/pods, 45 pilots, 140 mains, Custom Mac 4 into 2 exhaust, ACCT,XS850 final drive,110/90/19 front tire,TKat fork brace, XS750 140 MPH speedometer, Vetter IV fairing, aftermarket hard bags and trunk, LG high back seat, XJ rear shocks.

The list changes.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-26-2016, 09:11 PM
GLoweVA's Avatar
GLoweVA GLoweVA is offline
XS-XJ Guru
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Virginia Beach, VA.
Posts: 1,942
Yep, missing fender. It acts as a fork stabilizer. Some of us even add a fork brace to stiffen up our front end.
__________________
Hi, my name is George & I'm a twisty addict!

80G (Green paint(PO idea))
The Green Monster
K&N A/F, TC's fuse block, '81 oil cooler, TC's homemade 4-2 w/Mac Mufflers, Raptor 660 ACCT
Got him in '04.
bald tire & borrowing parts

80SG (Black w/red emblems & calipers)
Scarlet
K&N A/F, TC's fuse block, WJ5, Shoei bags, Raptor 660 ACCT.
Got her in '11
Ready for the twisties!

81H (previously CPMaynard's)
Hugo
Full Venturer, Indigo Blue with B/W painted tank.
Cold weather ride
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-26-2016, 09:56 PM
Ken Talbot's Avatar
Ken Talbot Ken Talbot is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Revelstoke, BC
Posts: 4,251
While you're at it, have a look at this old thread dealing with some front end troubleshooting.

For lots more, use the terms 'steering', 'head', and 'tight' in the search tool to get more insight.
__________________
Ken Talbot
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-27-2016, 10:53 AM
mesmeridicus mesmeridicus is offline
XSive
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Dayton, Ohio
Posts: 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaximPhil View Post
Hi mesmeridicus,
Corrosion of the wheel in the bead seating area is a quite common cause of a slow leak. Did the shop clean up that area or just remount?
I have had the valve stem leak too. Test with soapy water and a turn on the nut might seal it. if not replace it as the rubber gasket on the inside hardens over time. Mine is a Standard but it can be tricky to get the forks and calipers all lined up correctly. Over torque of the axle nut can upset the alignment too.
Has taken me 3 tries on occasion
After going down you need to check the forks straightness.
Many install a Fork Brace as the fender alone is not enough so put the fender back on. Check the wheel bearings too.
Glad you survived your tumble.
Phil
They cleaned the rim and remounted the tire. Leak was definitely on the bead, I used soapy water to figure that out before I took it in. I used a torque wrench on the axle nut so I know that it's to spec: wondering whether I placed a spacer in the wrong spot though. It's on the outside of the forks, in between the castle nut and the left fork.

I'm looking into a fork brace (emailed TKat). Thanks for your help.

Quote:
Hmmmmm..........try holding one upright when your tire goes down at 70 - 80mph. Happened to me in Arkansas on the way to XS Southeast a few years back. Didn't go down but I saw every part of my life flash before my eyes in less than 30 seconds.

You post is a perfect example of why you need to stay on top of your tire pressure and a lesson to those that want to run around without a front fender.

We haven't heard much from those that delete the front brakes......

I wonder why?
That sounds like a harrowing experience. I'm glad I was in a neighborhood.

So, I stored the bike in a buddy's garage over the winter. The day I took it out, I inflated the tires to spec, no issue. Drove it home, and then left it outside for an hour before heading over to another friend's house. His house was less than a mile and half away, and it was in his neighborhood that this happened. I had inflated this tire less than two hours earlier, I had no reason to think it would deflate while riding, and on such a short trip. That said, I think you're exactly correct -- I learned that lesson pretty cheap.

Quote:
Yep, missing fender. It acts as a fork stabilizer. Some of us even add a fork brace to stiffen up our front end.
Do you think the lack of a fender is enough to cause the symptoms I experienced on my trip, detailed in the first post? If it's just the fender, I've already put it back on and I'm waiting for a day with no rain to give it a test. I hope it is just the fender.


Thanks everyone for your advice, I'm going to ride it with the fender ASAP to see if that's what was causing the issue. Any other info or advice is greatly appreciated. This board is an invaluable resource.
__________________
79 SF
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-27-2016, 02:02 PM
JasonRedbeard JasonRedbeard is offline
Truly XSive
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Tuscaloosa, AL
Posts: 109
I give it 85% odds that the fender will sort your wobble. The other 15 I'll chalk up to a slightly bent fork.
__________________
My Special is as old as I am.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-27-2016, 03:29 PM
bikerphil's Avatar
bikerphil bikerphil is offline
Master of XSology
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Broward County, S. Flori-DUH
Posts: 7,552
Quote:
wondering whether I placed a spacer in the wrong spot though. It's on the outside of the forks, in between the castle nut and the left fork
There is supposed to be a 2mm thick washer behind the castle nut, not a spacer.
__________________



79F - owned since '89 - FJ fork mod, solo seat mod, Dyna 3Ω's, 14MM M/C (168K miles)
79SF - every day rider, solo seat mod, Brembo 16MM M/C, Accel 3Ω's, Supertrapp (125K miles)

"If it ain't broke, modify it"

30 year XS11 owner

Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-27-2016, 04:16 PM
motoman motoman is offline
Master of XSology
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Grand Junction, Colorado
Posts: 8,309
'tire pressure at spec'........meaning what? Use tire manufacturer max. spec on side of tire, not bike manufacturer spec. You need to be running 40-42psi in both front and rear tires, and is normally what max.psi spec. is on side of tire. If your lookin' for a way soft ride, by a Caddy.
__________________
81H Venturer1100 "The Bentley" (on steroids) 97 Yamaha YZ250(age reducer) 92 Honda ST1100 "Twisty"(touring rocket) Age is relative to the number of seconds counted 'airing' out an 85ft. table-top.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 04-27-2016, 05:43 PM
mesmeridicus mesmeridicus is offline
XSive
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Dayton, Ohio
Posts: 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonRedbeard View Post
I give it 85% odds that the fender will sort your wobble. The other 15 I'll chalk up to a slightly bent fork.
That's encouraging to hear, thanks. Fender is reattached so once this rain quits I'll take it out and push it.


Quote:
Quote:
wondering whether I placed a spacer in the wrong spot though. It's on the outside of the forks, in between the castle nut and the left fork

There is supposed to be a 2mm thick washer behind the castle nut, not a spacer.
Not mechanically apt myself. Thanks for the correction, and letting me know it's in the right place.

Quote:
'tire pressure at spec'........meaning what? Use tire manufacturer max. spec on side of tire, not bike manufacturer spec. You need to be running 40-42psi in both front and rear tires, and is normally what max.psi spec. is on side of tire. If your lookin' for a way soft ride, by a Caddy.
Oh, whoa. I've always run front around 34 and rear around 36. Sometimes 36-36. I should be pressurizing both tires to just under their max factory spec as per what's written on the sidewall of the tire? I guess that will make a difference in handling as well. Maybe I'll try 40-40 first. I don't give a damn about a soft ride. Thanks
__________________
79 SF
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 04-27-2016, 06:05 PM
motoman motoman is offline
Master of XSology
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Grand Junction, Colorado
Posts: 8,309
Quote:
Originally Posted by mesmeridicus View Post
That's encouraging to hear, thanks. Fender is reattached so once this rain quits I'll take it out and push it.




Not mechanically apt myself. Thanks for the correction, and letting me know it's in the right place.



Oh, whoa. I've always run front around 34 and rear around 36. Sometimes 36-36. I should be pressurizing both tires to just under their max factory spec as per what's written on the sidewall of the tire? I guess that will make a difference in handling as well. Maybe I'll try 40-40 first. I don't give a damn about a soft ride. Thanks
Again.....max as per what is on sidewall of tire.
__________________
81H Venturer1100 "The Bentley" (on steroids) 97 Yamaha YZ250(age reducer) 92 Honda ST1100 "Twisty"(touring rocket) Age is relative to the number of seconds counted 'airing' out an 85ft. table-top.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 04-27-2016, 07:24 PM
MindWebs's Avatar
MindWebs MindWebs is offline
XStremely XSive
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Elmwood, WI
Posts: 425
try this... (hold my beer)?

if you are wondering what the stiffness is between fender and no fender,

that we can measure!

simple experiment.

have a buddy help,

with out the fender on, stand facing the front of your bike, straddle the front tire.

use your legs to "hold" the front tire stationary, grab the handlebar grips.

now turn the bars as far as you can while holding the front tire from turning.

have your bubby use a tape measure from a setpoint (edge of gas tank to one of the handle bar ends) take a measurement from "at rest" then from "turned".

install fender and repeat.

install fork brace and repeat.

my "guess" is that the fork deflection (twist) will be cut in half with each part you install.

if you want to run without a fender(your bike, your neck, your option)
i would add tkat's fork brace and that will stabilize the forks to make them safe to ride. personal taste is fine and good but please be safe.

we like having people to bs with.

also pull up bike bandit and look at the exploded parts diagrams.
they are very helpful if your not sure of assembly order.
I use them ALOT!!!
__________________
1979 XS1100SF Special.78 E motor/carbs, Jardine 4-2 exhaust, XS Green coils, Corbin seat, S.S. Brake lines, Hard cases, Heated grips.
1981 Yamaha XJ750RH Seca (War Pig) XS11S front end and rear swingarm with 17" rim, 20mm ammo box saddle boxes, HID headlight, LED aux lights, Heated grips & seat, Bark busters, Harley 12" shocks, S.S. brake lines, oil cooler

PW50, PW80, YZ80(mine? what the??? Brrap OH...)

Most bike problems are caused by a loose nut connecting the handlebars and the seat!!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
fork, forks, misaligned, unstable, wobble

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:49 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Integrated by BBpixel ©2004-2022, jvbPlugin