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Old 06-12-2018, 03:12 PM
CivilPenny CivilPenny is offline
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Valve Cover Removal

Follow up to Valve Cover Gasket Question
I need to remove my valve cover to make sure my Cam chain did not slip off the sprockets while the old CCT was removed. In this process, the bike rocked off the center stand, moved, sat on its side stand, and moved some more, all with the CCT removed. I just want to make sure I do NOTHING wrong when having the valve cover removed.
Questions for this post
Is it bad to rotate everything by hand while the cover is off?
What should I be looking for?
When installing the ACCT, I should have the crank lined up on "C" correct?
Any more info helps.
Thanks guys
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  #2  
Old 06-12-2018, 06:16 PM
motoman motoman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CivilPenny View Post
Follow up to Valve Cover Gasket Question
I need to remove my valve cover to make sure my Cam chain did not slip off the sprockets while the old CCT was removed. In this process, the bike rocked off the center stand, moved, sat on its side stand, and moved some more, all with the CCT removed. I just want to make sure I do NOTHING wrong when having the valve cover removed.
Questions for this post
Is it bad to rotate everything by hand while the cover is off?
What should I be looking for?
When installing the ACCT, I should have the crank lined up on "C" correct?
Any more info helps.
Thanks guys
Civil, in response to your first question, bad, bad choice. Guarenteed there WILL be bent valve stems excetra.Questin two, looking for nothing at this point, except guaranteed cam chain has jumped out of time AT the crankshaft. Gonna have to remove ALL cam bearing shaft hold downs to allow camshaft to rise from camlobes. THEN rotate crankshaft to "c" mark, then rotate cam separately lining up cam marks on side of cam with marks on cam retainer caps. Get chain on correctly with cam marking linined up and with NO movement from cam. So, yup, you gotta a bit of chore ahead of you. If not done, refer back to my first two statements. Good luck, and feel free to ask here when not knowing for sure. I'm sure others here will give you a more detailed explanation of correct procedure in order to rectify the situation caused by the bike tippin' over with the adjuster removed....yikes!
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  #3  
Old 06-13-2018, 05:16 AM
mack mack is offline
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Cams

Unless the bike was in gear when it slipped off the stand, the motor wouldn't have rotated at all so the cams should still be in their original position. As a rule of thumb, never, ever rotate the crank without the CCT installed.
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Old 06-13-2018, 05:37 AM
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Manual

You do have either the Clymers or Haynes manual right. Look up the chapter on cam chain adjustment and removal. You'll see in there that there is a dot on each cam and a corresponding arrow on the caps. the dots should line up with the arrows if the crank and cams are in time. If you don't see the dots you'll need to rotate the crank another revolution then you should see them. But again never rotate the crank unless the CCT is installed.
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  #5  
Old 06-13-2018, 06:47 AM
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When the cam cover is off, you can shine a flashlight down the center chain tunnel to make sure the chain is still lined up with the crank sprocket before reinstalling the tensioner. Sometimes it can slip off to the left side which would cause valve damage when the engine is first rotated.
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Old 06-13-2018, 08:07 AM
CivilPenny CivilPenny is offline
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Fu*k me...so letís so valve stems ARE bent. How do I tell? How are they replaced? Anything inside the engine is new to me. I have never dug into it
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Old 06-13-2018, 09:57 AM
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If you have a bent valve, the clearance on that valve will be way out of spec. Lets say #2 intake was at 0.010", and it's now at 0.110". That valve is probably bent. If you do not know what the clearance was, just assume they were close to the factory specs, and anything that is a lot larger gap may be bent.
Intake should be about 0.008 to 0.012", if I remember correctly. If one is bent, it will probably be about 0.100", but could be only 0.050". Either one is a LOT different than the 0.012" max. If valve have not been checked for a while, they will tighten up. The intake may be only 0.002", and that is also bad!
Exhaust valves will be gaped larger than intake, let's say 0.010" to 0.014". DO NOT TAKE THESE GAPS AS FACTORY! This is all before my first cup of coffee and I don't have my book in front of me. ALWAYS check the manual for the actual clearance for your valves based on the year of your bike.
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Old 06-13-2018, 11:56 AM
JeffH JeffH is offline
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YIKES ………………

I was also following your thread on the Valve Cover Gasket question. So let's confirm the sequence of events.

1. Old Tensioner Removed (per procedure) on center stand but did not remove the valve cover

2. Successfully installed the new ACCT and ran the engine which ran just fine

3. Removed new ACCT

Has the engine been turned over at all after you ran it with the new ACCT before you removed it?

Sure want to heed what the guys have said in first diagnosing exactly what happened and if the chain is really off the bottom sprocket. Like Phil said, look carefully down that tunnel before turning anything. Then let us know.

It is either ON the sprocket or OFF the sprocket. If OFF that's one procedure. If its ON the sprocket then it comes down to DID you turn anything or Nothing was moved or turned. Maybe some more details would help define a specific course of action.

You sure don't want to BEND VALVES now messing with it that aren't bend to start with.
I suggest DON'T ROTATE ANYTHING till you diagnose exactly what you are seeing now.

I'm guessing not bent yet if you haven't turned anything. I also assume after you removed the new ACCT to work on the bolts that the new ACCT was never put back in? that right?
Jeff
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  #9  
Old 06-13-2018, 01:01 PM
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Radioguylogs Radioguylogs is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CivilPenny View Post
letís (assmue?) valve stems ARE bent. How do I tell? How are they replaced? Anything inside the engine is new to me. I have never dug into it
AFTER you have followed the advice above, you will have the cam chain on the crankshaft sprocket, you will have re-installed the CCT, you will have confirmed the correct camshaft timing.....

Then you can measure compression to see if any valves are bent. If you don't have one, a compression gauge is $10 at harbor freight. Measuring compression is super easy. Bent valves result in 0 PSI readings- there is no doubt about the result.

...Or you can use the method recommended by DiverRay.

Like the others said, make sure everything is timed correctly before you turn the crankshaft.
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  #10  
Old 06-13-2018, 06:02 PM
CivilPenny CivilPenny is offline
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So far so good

The engine was not turned at all after the ACCT was removed for bolt prep. So I'm guessing the valves are not damaged. The valve cover is now removed, and it is confirmed that the cam chain IS indeed still on the bottom sprocket. Questions for further work
Can I slap the ACCT on the engine, even though it is not on the "C" mark, and begin to rotate the crank? Then remove it on C, remove the ACCT, and reinstall for proper tension?
How do i make sure the Timing chain did not skip a tooth? I see the dots on the cam and the arrows to be lined up to, but WHEN and at WHAT position should those dots line up? Top dead center if i am correct?
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Old 06-13-2018, 07:08 PM
CivilPenny CivilPenny is offline
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Whoops

Apparently I did rotate the engine while tensioner was removed...Apologies for the wrong message. Took off the side cover and the mark was on "C", not on the random spot it used to be on. Believe I moved it in hopes to put the new tensioner on and never did. Hopefully no valves bent. ACCT was installed, and I will be checking valve clearances soon. Need a nice set of feeler gauges.
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Old 06-14-2018, 06:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CivilPenny View Post
How do i make sure the Timing chain did not skip a tooth? I see the dots on the cam and the arrows to be lined up to, but WHEN and at WHAT position should those dots line up? Top dead center if i am correct?
When the dots on the cam are lined up with the arrows of the cam caps, the timing plate should read TDC at the pointer. Yes, you are correct.
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  #13  
Old 06-14-2018, 09:27 AM
mack mack is offline
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If

your cover is still off and you've verified that the crank and cams are in time( dots and cap arrows line up at TDC) then you can safely rotate the motor with the old CCT in and don't get too hung up on hitting the "C" dead on. All your really doing is using the crank to pull out any slack in the chain from the intake side of the motor and put it to the exhaust side so the CCT can take up any slack from chain stretch right. What your really looking for is that the chain is nice and tight across the bridge between the cams. If it isn't, go ahead and rotate the motor a little more until it is tight, then remove the old CCT and install your auto tensioner and your good to put it back together.
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79 XS 1100 SF Special
HERMES
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http://i946.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps6932d5df.jpg

81 XS 1100 LH MNS
SPICA
http://i946.photobucket.com/albums/ad305/mack-055/2.jpg

78 XS 11E
IOTA
https://youtu.be/wB5Jfbp6SUc
https://youtu.be/RaI3WYHSuWA



Have recovery trailer and shop if you breakdown in my area.
Frankford, Ont, Canada
613-398-6186
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  #14  
Old 06-16-2018, 09:21 PM
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TopCatGr58 TopCatGr58 is offline
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Hey Civil,

IF you already have the ACCT Installed, do NOT remove it again. I has a spring and ratchet design that WILL take up the excess slack when it encounters it. You say you have the cam dots showing on the top aligned with the arrows of the cam bearing caps?? THen the timing plate should be on TDC line. If it is, then you can rotated the crank CW a couple of turns/rotations and then stop on the TDC mark again and double check the cam dots are on the arrows, or VERY CLOSE, less than 1 cam sprocket tooth distance off. While you are rotating the crank, the cam chain will develop any slack that it can on the ACCT side, and the ACCT will then ratchet pushing further inwards towards the engine/chain and take up any residual slack that CAN be taken up, you do NOT need to remove the ACCT anymore. That's why you are putting it on, so you don't have to worry or perform a cam chain tension adjustment, it will occur AUTOMATICALLY while the engine runs.

T.C.
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