new battery woes

[TopCatGr58]

Hey there,

Glad you figured out the Geezer R/R is bad. IIRC he offers a LIFETIME warranty on his units so it should be just a matter of sending him the bad one and he should then send you a replacement, may have to just pay shipping?

With the headlight still not working, does sound like either the relay is bad,or the diode in the harness that sends the latching power/signal to the relay is bad.

My relay stopped working sometime after installing my aftermarket racing alternator, it is a 1 wire design with built in R/R, so I made a tap wire from one of the legs/phases in the ALT for the headlight relay and tach wire. I opened up the harness, found the diode, replaced it, but it still didn't want to work.

So I removed the phase tap wire from the ALT. I then wired in a handlebar switch to activate the headlight relay manually. I can throw the relay and then release the switch and the relay keeps latched keeping the headlight ON until I turn the bike/key off.

So...you can test the headlight relay with a 12 volt (+) tap wire that you can do a temporary 'touch' to the white wire contact of the relay with just the key on and see if the headlight comes on. If so, then the relay still works, and most likely the diode in the harness that converts the ~7V AC into pulsed DC to throw the relay is bad. You can try to replace the diode, or you can install a separate switch instead, your choice.

Good luck with the troubleshooting.

T.C.

[bikerphil]

If you want, you can ditch the relay altogether and jump the red/yel and the blu/blk in the harness plug. The headlight should go on with the key in the 'on' position.

[3Phase]

T.C., the '78 and '79 headlight relays use the Yellow wire from the common center-tap for the stator coils, there are no diodes in any of the alternator wires or the relay.

Originally Posted by bikerphil

If you want, you can ditch the relay altogether and jump the red/yel and the blu/blk in the harness plug. The headlight should go on with the key in the 'on' position.

That's the best suggestion right there, Phil.

FWIW, if you bypass the relay and use a kicker to start the engine then the current used by the headlight and the relay won't matter.
If the engine doesn't start with one or two kicks, something is wrong and grinding away with the starter motor won't fix it.

[Blank Slate]

update: battery is happy, oem regulator doing fine job charging, no clicking from relay but headlight still dead;
i checked bulb but it looks fine;
i ordered a new headlight relay from andreas to see if its just a matter of replacing the relay;
i ordered new diodes just in case i need to replace;

more updates to come. thnx

[mack]

His harness was hacked up pretty good when I first saw his bike. The headlight had been hotwired to the battery. When I put in his fuse panel I cut all jury rigging out and restored the harness by bridging the hacked portions with identical wires with blade connectors, then replaced his relay with one out of my bikes that was known to work. Headlight worked fine since then until recently. However I did not replace his headlight bulb. The harness connectors were rinsed in cold water, blown dry then sprayed with contact cleaner before reinstall in the frame. his frame and harness were from an SF but the motor is an 81 sh. PO stated it ran terrible and always hot since the new motor was installed. He had the 2h7 TCI. I swapped it out with a 4R0 and it corrected the running issues. I believe he still has the BR in it.

[skids]

Originally Posted by mack

His harness was hacked up pretty good when I first saw his bike. The headlight had been hotwired to the battery. When I put in his fuse panel I cut all jury rigging out and restored the harness by bridging the hacked portions with identical wires with blade connectors, then replaced his relay with one out of my bikes that was known to work. Headlight worked fine since then until recently. However I did not replace his headlight bulb. The harness connectors were rinsed in cold water, blown dry then sprayed with contact cleaner before reinstall in the frame. his frame and harness were from an SF but the motor is an 81 sh. PO stated it ran terrible and always hot since the new motor was installed. He had the 2h7 TCI. I swapped it out with a 4R0 and it corrected the running issues. I believe he still has the BR in it.

Bipass the ballast resistor wires and just remove it from the frame. The connectors can be plugged into each other (they are in the sheath near the BR). I assume that the pickup coil assembly also travelled with the engine from the 81, as it should have!

I figured that the headlight relay was rigged to come on with the battery the way the relay clicked with the terminal was connected. That is why I suggested going with a new relay and switch, because I suspected the rigging was because of a failed diode. Apparently, you will be trying to fix the diode to get the stock relay to work, BUT the hot leads need to be reworked as well! The relay is nothing more than a fancy switch that turns on/off the higher current circuit by using a lower current circuit. Yamaha decided to make the headlight come on mandatory with a “latching relay” and this happens as soon as the alternator starts spinning.

PS, I seriously doubt that both filiments are burned out in the headlight. What are the cchances of that?

[mack]

had pulled a diode out of an old harness and tested it to make sure it was good if I'd needed it. However replacing the old relay brought the headlight back to life. It maybe toast now, or perhaps the relay. Yes his pick up coil assembly is correct for the motor and I ran the wires and tested it and it had no issues. Bike has been running great for two years.

[skids]

Originally Posted by mack

had pulled a diode out of an old harness and tested it to make sure it was good if I'd needed it. However replacing the old relay brought the headlight back to life. It maybe toast now, or perhaps the relay. Yes his pick up coil assembly is correct for the motor and I ran the wires and tested it and it had no issues. Bike has been running great for two years.

Are you the previous owner Mack? If so (or to anyone else on this list) I hope you weren't offended by previous comments. Something is amiss if the relay was getting power with the key off and connecting the battery terminal. Just trying to help figure that out! I think I remembered a post where he said the relay got hot (temperature). That doesn't seem right to me either.

[skids]

I zoomed-in on that board pic. That thing is completely separated all the way across on the right hand side!

[mack]

His father in law was the PO. I don't know who did the motor swap or harness hacking or why. He brought the bike to me originally to graft in one of TC's fuse panels. Once I started taking it apart, I found one problem after another and wound up with it almost completely dismantled. Replaced various parts with broken studs etc. The usual full brake rebuilds etc etc etc. Carbs completely redone. New rubber, exhausts you name it. I wouldn't even try to start it until it was safe to ride because this was going to be his first bike. Once I knew it was safe, he and his father in law came up and we started it, tuned it and Jim (po) took it for a ride. He was kiddy upon his return. Pablo has had it ever since but he likes to tinker so I have no idea what's up with it.

[mack]

when I was timing the cams to the crank and recording all the shim sizes and clearances, I noted that he still had 1.5 coils in it. I tested them and they were good so I'm pretty sure he had a BR in it. But he may have changed out those coils. I remember him talking about it but I thought he was doing that to his little 650.

[3Phase]

What diode are you thinking you're going to replace?

It's a '79 'Special and the picture he showed is a '78/'79 style and part number headlight relay, it does not contain or require a diode.

Y'all have fun!

[Blank Slate]

Originally Posted by mack

when I was timing the cams to the crank and recording all the shim sizes and clearances, I noted that he still had 1.5 coils in it. I tested them and they were good so I'm pretty sure he had a BR in it. But he may have changed out those coils. I remember him talking about it but I thought he was doing that to his little 650.

The return of the Mack

Since this is the electrical woes thread Im not going to bring in my gas tank woes, but my kid Carson wanted to sit on a chair where I set aside my gas tank, and it landed on its cap, dented around the cap, fuel poured over my new paint job, and i could hear an air leak around the cap. Im gonna make his grandfather pay for this repair because he’s biologically related to this kid and Im not.

Back to Scott’s question: bike is a 79 special. I bought the diodes that you recommended in a different thread, and I could have sworn someone in this thread gave me advice to check the diodes in the harness located near the headlight relay but I cant find the post. Are you saying there’s no diode to replace in a 79 special?

[skids]

Originally Posted by Blank Slate

The return of the Mack

Back to Scott’s question: bike is a 79 special. I bought the diodes that you recommended in a different thread, and I could have sworn someone in this thread gave me advice to check the diodes in the harness located near the headlight relay but I cant find the post. Are you saying there’s no diode to replace in a 79 special?

You might have gotten that impression from me because I suggested that maybe someone may have altered the wiring to make the headlight come on and it might have had something to do with a diode being out. This was when I was trying to help you figure out why the relay was clicking with the key off and when you touched the battery terminal with the cable. With all of the swapping of parts, it was hard to follow exactly what had been done...

[3Phase]

Originally Posted by Blank Slate

[...] Back to Scott’s question: bike is a 79 special. I bought the diodes that you recommended in a different thread, and I could have sworn someone in this thread gave me advice to check the diodes in the harness located near the headlight relay but I cant find the post. Are you saying there’s no diode to replace in a 79 special?

The diodes to check were the ones in the Voltage Regulator/Rectifier. The problem went away when you swapped it out with a good one but you can't change any of those diodes, you need to talk to Geezer.


The 1978 and 1979 XS1100s use a headlight relay and wiring layout that gets its power by using the Yellow neutral wire from the alternator stator.



The 1980 and 1981 XS1100s use two diodes and a different headlight relay.

The '80/'81 relay has a latching diode inside the case to keep the relay and the lights on until you turn off the ignition switch.

The relay coil doesn't get its power from the Yellow stator neutral wire like the '78/'79 relay, there is a diode on one of the White wires from the stator output that turns on the relay when the alternator starts working.

You have a 1979 Special, there are no diodes.