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Old 06-29-2012, 04:00 PM
geneborg geneborg is offline
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Starter Spins does not engage

'80XS11 LG I recently got the bike running again. Today it started but when it stalled and I tried to restart it the starter would spin but not engage the engine. I searched the issue and looked in the manual but am confused. The books says if the starter turns but does not engage the engine then there is a defective starter clutch. Where is that clutch? In the starter itself or in the engine? I am in Florida so per one of the forums it is not cold oil. They also said to squirt some oil to try and free up the clutch? If so where, in the starter itself? Suggestions appreciated.
gene in FL
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Old 06-29-2012, 04:08 PM
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The starter clutch is inside the engine case. Sorry, but the engine has to come out and the cases split to repair it.
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80 SG Ol' Okie;79 engine & carbs w/pods, 45 pilots, 140 mains, Custom Mac 4 into 2 exhaust, ACCT,XS850 final drive,110/90/19 front tire,TKat fork brace, XS750 140 MPH speedometer, Vetter IV fairing, aftermarket hard bags and trunk, LG high back seat, XJ rear shocks.

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Old 06-29-2012, 05:11 PM
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James England James England is offline
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They can do that occasionally. You may find it just goes away after a while....it did with my bike. At this stage, it's only the first time it's done it and you may find it'll clear up....
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XS1100F 1980 European model. Standard. Dyna coils. Iridium plugs. XS750 final drive (sometimes). Micron fork brace. Progressive front springs. Geezer regulator/rectifier. Stainless 4 into 2 exhaust. Auto CCT (Venturer 1300) SOLD. New project now on the go. 1980 European model.
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Old 06-29-2012, 06:01 PM
Eveready1100 Eveready1100 is offline
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Hi Gene,
Quote:
I recently got the bike running again.
Just curious, mate. What oil have you put in it? The wrong stuff will affect both the starter clutch and the main drive clutchpack.
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Old 06-29-2012, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eveready1100 View Post
Hi Gene,


Just curious, mate. What oil have you put in it? The wrong stuff will affect both the starter clutch and the main drive clutchpack.
You're right... the starter clutch doesn't like really thin oil, does it?
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XS1100F 1980 European model. Standard. Dyna coils. Iridium plugs. XS750 final drive (sometimes). Micron fork brace. Progressive front springs. Geezer regulator/rectifier. Stainless 4 into 2 exhaust. Auto CCT (Venturer 1300) SOLD. New project now on the go. 1980 European model.
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  #6  
Old 06-29-2012, 07:33 PM
geneborg geneborg is offline
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Starter Spins

You asked about what type oil did I use? I used Valvoline 20/50 MC oil which shows SF/SG/SJ. What other suggestions are there other than splitting the case. I just put the engine back in after a first gear fix.
Could I try a heavier oil? Could I drain part of the existing oil and add a thicker or just drain and add a thicker oil? Could I remove the starter and put some type of oil directly into the gear opening? Perhaps a touch of gear lube!! Is the clutch directly below the gear opening? Anything to try other than taking the engine out and splitting the case.
I just looked in Clymer and it shows SAE 20/40, Could 20/50 make the difference?
gene in FL
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Old 06-29-2012, 07:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James England View Post
You're right... the starter clutch doesn't like really thin oil, does it?
James, from what I've heard here it doesn't like THICK really slippery oil, which gets more slippery when it gets cold, as well as the pinch rollers may STICK in place being held by the thicker colder oil.

But I think we're on one of the right tracks, he's in FLA., and the engine was warmed up. However, after a ride, depending on how good/strong his charging system is, his battery may have actually been weaker? It's been reported by members that the clutch would slip when their batteries weren't in good condition, and once charged, the starter would spin with much more vigor, and the clutch would grab better then.

Also, what type of oil...again, here we go slamming on SYNTH, but it's also been reported to aggravate the starter clutch as well as the regular clutch!

Gene, I can't recall if your year has the kick starter shaft still sticking out of the engine, or just the plug...but I think just the plug. Yep, the starter clutch is DEEP in the engine and as stated requires a pull and cases split process to repair....UGH!

Also, being in FLA, lots of humidity/corrosion, how's your connections.... battery, grounds, starter cables and such???

T.C.
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Old 06-29-2012, 07:56 PM
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No kick start on an 80 unless it's been added or it has an earlier engine in it. 79 was the last year.
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Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.

― Albert Einstein

80 SG Ol' Okie;79 engine & carbs w/pods, 45 pilots, 140 mains, Custom Mac 4 into 2 exhaust, ACCT,XS850 final drive,110/90/19 front tire,TKat fork brace, XS750 140 MPH speedometer, Vetter IV fairing, aftermarket hard bags and trunk, LG high back seat, XJ rear shocks.

The list changes.
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Old 06-29-2012, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geneborg View Post
Anything to try other than taking the engine out and splitting the case.
I just looked in Clymer and it shows SAE 20/40, Could 20/50 make the difference?
gene in FL
No "easy fix" on the starter clutch. It runs in the crankcase oil anyway. Gear oil would just contaminate your engine oil.

20w50 is what's supposed to be in there. Clymer is known for misprints but I think that's what Yamaha originally recommended but changed to 20w50 later on.

The difference is insignificant.
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Greg

Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.

― Albert Einstein

80 SG Ol' Okie;79 engine & carbs w/pods, 45 pilots, 140 mains, Custom Mac 4 into 2 exhaust, ACCT,XS850 final drive,110/90/19 front tire,TKat fork brace, XS750 140 MPH speedometer, Vetter IV fairing, aftermarket hard bags and trunk, LG high back seat, XJ rear shocks.

The list changes.

Last edited by BA80; 06-29-2012 at 08:04 PM.
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Old 06-29-2012, 08:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geneborg View Post
'80XS11 LG I recently got the bike running again. Today it started but when it stalled and I tried to restart it the starter would spin but not engage the engine. I searched the issue and looked in the manual but am confused. The books says if the starter turns but does not engage the engine then there is a defective starter clutch. Where is that clutch? In the starter itself or in the engine? I am in Florida so per one of the forums it is not cold oil. They also said to squirt some oil to try and free up the clutch? If so where, in the starter itself? Suggestions appreciated.
gene in FL
Hi Gene,
it takes a complete teardown to get at the starter clutch so try this first:-
Hook up your car battery to the bike battery with jumper cables and see if the starter will engage with a boost.
The starter don't like to engage if the battery is weak.
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Old 06-29-2012, 08:08 PM
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Good point Fred.
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Greg

Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.

― Albert Einstein

80 SG Ol' Okie;79 engine & carbs w/pods, 45 pilots, 140 mains, Custom Mac 4 into 2 exhaust, ACCT,XS850 final drive,110/90/19 front tire,TKat fork brace, XS750 140 MPH speedometer, Vetter IV fairing, aftermarket hard bags and trunk, LG high back seat, XJ rear shocks.

The list changes.
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  #12  
Old 06-29-2012, 08:24 PM
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Also, as it's been down for a bit, you could try some seafoam or berryman's B12 in the engine oil, let it idle for a few minutes, Let it set for 20 minutes, start and idle one more time for about two minutes, and then change the oil. That should clean out anything that may have worked it's way into the clutch. DO NOT DRIVE the bike with the seafoam or B12 in the oil, as the bearings will NOT keep a coat of oil between the crank and them!
I had a bike that would do the slip for a bit, and then it got better after cleaning the engine with the B12. I also had to go to 10/40 in the "winter" we have here to help it.
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Old 06-29-2012, 09:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TopCatGr58 View Post
James, from what I've heard here it doesn't like THICK really slippery oil, which gets more slippery when it gets cold, as well as the pinch rollers may STICK in place being held by the thicker colder oil.

But I think we're on one of the right tracks, he's in FLA., and the engine was warmed up. However, after a ride, depending on how good/strong his charging system is, his battery may have actually been weaker? It's been reported by members that the clutch would slip when their batteries weren't in good condition, and once charged, the starter would spin with much more vigor, and the clutch would grab better then.

Also, what type of oil...again, here we go slamming on SYNTH, but it's also been reported to aggravate the starter clutch as well as the regular clutch!

Gene, I can't recall if your year has the kick starter shaft still sticking out of the engine, or just the plug...but I think just the plug. Yep, the starter clutch is DEEP in the engine and as stated requires a pull and cases split process to repair....UGH!

Also, being in FLA, lots of humidity/corrosion, how's your connections.... battery, grounds, starter cables and such???

T.C.
TC has it NAILED. You might need to hit the starter a few times to no avail. Sometimes it sound like a honking duck in cold weather. Sometimes it will whirl and go clackity-clack before it starts catching. Make sure that you don't make the starter get hot. You might need to give it a rest after some attempts.
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  #14  
Old 06-29-2012, 09:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skids View Post
TC has it NAILED. You might need to hit the starter a few times to no avail. Sometimes it sound like a honking duck in cold weather. Sometimes it will whirl and go clackity-clack before it starts catching. Make sure that you don't make the starter get hot. You might need to give it a rest after some attempts.
Nailed? You just described a bad starter clutch skids.
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Greg

Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.

― Albert Einstein

80 SG Ol' Okie;79 engine & carbs w/pods, 45 pilots, 140 mains, Custom Mac 4 into 2 exhaust, ACCT,XS850 final drive,110/90/19 front tire,TKat fork brace, XS750 140 MPH speedometer, Vetter IV fairing, aftermarket hard bags and trunk, LG high back seat, XJ rear shocks.

The list changes.
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  #15  
Old 06-30-2012, 02:03 PM
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James England James England is offline
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It's only done it recently eh? Mine did it in very cold weather. Or with a less than well-charged battery. Or just occasionally when it felt like it. I think they do sometimes... the starter clutch rollers can get sticky or temperamental. I'd charge the battery. Clean all connections. Put non synth, non-semi-synth oil in and change the oil filter whilst you're at it. If you're up to it, I would remove the starter motor and strip it down, clean the commutator with fine abrasive paper, check the brushes and generally overhaul it. I've done several overhauls on starter motors and it's easy. Just be careful undoing the nut that holds the starter wire as you don't want the threaded bit to move at all when you take the cable nut off.

I got bothered by mine whizzing occasionally and was horrified at how much work it is to get at that clutch. But, on the bright side, it sits all its life covered in oil and they're usually reliable. What TC said re synthetic oil is true, IMO.

Also, as TC said, the starter has to spin rapidly immediately for the starter clutch to engage.

It was working OK before, right? I would just check everything else first. I bet it goes away....
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XS1100F 1980 European model. Standard. Dyna coils. Iridium plugs. XS750 final drive (sometimes). Micron fork brace. Progressive front springs. Geezer regulator/rectifier. Stainless 4 into 2 exhaust. Auto CCT (Venturer 1300) SOLD. New project now on the go. 1980 European model.
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