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Old 07-01-2015, 07:35 PM
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mwsxj1100j mwsxj1100j is offline
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Smile 20-50w oil swap

I just finished swapping the 10-40w oil for 20-50w oil in my xj I am noticing that the transmission shifts quite a bit quieter and the clutch has qite a bit more bite than before. The first gear seems to jump into neutral at around 3250 rpm unlike before when it would happen at 3000 rpm after riding season I hope I can find someone to help me with the issue since I just don't have enough faith in my skills. I would like to grease the u joint since after 33 years it should be regreased even if there is only 11,700 miles on the clock. Thanks to all those who offered the helpful information. The 82" XJ 1100 is running pretty well the carbs aren't the best a little bit of popping from the exhaust and runs pretty well after it warms to operating temperature not to bad. Although at idle she likes to stumble and if I am not paying attention she will stall.
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Old 07-02-2015, 08:37 AM
BowlingSS BowlingSS is offline
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I also use 20W50.

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Old 07-02-2015, 08:49 AM
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these air cooled bikes should use 20w50 to keep cooler. 10w40 is for water cooled bikes as far as im concerned. ur poppin into neutral isnt the oil. im sure an experienced trans member will post
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81 XS1100SH Black Beast Mutt
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Old 07-02-2015, 12:19 PM
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I also run 20w50. I have only owned my bike for a month and a half, i changed the oil shortly after I bought it with 20w50 motorcycle dino oil and I noticed an improvement in shifting. I am not sure what the PO was using but it came out of the motor thin looking (could have been in there too long - I am not sure)
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Old 07-03-2015, 07:49 AM
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I would also change the oil every 3-5K. Do not forget the oil filter.

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Old 07-03-2015, 11:30 AM
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20w50 has given the best shifting in my XS vs 15w-40. That said, I use 15w-40 in my bikes at the moment. Yamaha didn't recommend higher than 20w-40 nor lower than 10w-30, thus 15w40 splits it right down the middle in terms of the lower number, which I deem most important for cold start up protection where most wear occurs.
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  #7  
Old 07-03-2015, 03:17 PM
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If you use newer brand-name oils other than those specific to wet sump motorcycles then sometimes your clutch may slip. The newer oils have "friction modifiers" and do not work properly with some wet sump clutches on older bikes. You can try Shell Rotella from Wallyword. It is a 15w40 I believe in the white jug. It says on the jug use for diesels, but lots of folks use it in older bikes and it works great. It has no friction modifiers. Also very inexpensive.
Sound to me like you may have a bigger issue. Many of the XS's and probably XJ's have what some call the "second gear issue" which can be fixed by grinding dog ears on one of the gears. This can be done without removing the engine. There is a great thread on this site which gives instructions and has photos to repair. Look for "second gear issue" or "second gear fix", or Google "XS1100 second gear fix" and you will probably find it. Good luck.
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Last edited by tn11; 07-03-2015 at 03:22 PM.
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Old 07-03-2015, 07:19 PM
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NO! If it does not have the energy conserving symbol, it has no friction modifier's, no matter what the oil. That is a fact and needs to be consistently understood as so.
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Old 07-04-2015, 11:40 AM
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Good to know. Rotella has no symbol, or at least it didn't the last time I bought some.
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Old 07-04-2015, 05:56 PM
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Thumbs up

Happy Independence Day!

You don't have to wonder if Shell Rotella will work. The "MA" motorcycle oil rating is next to the same API logo that won't have "Energy Conserving" on the lower rocker.

Wiki: Shell Rotella T
JASO-MA
Both Rotella T 15W-40 conventional and, Rotella T6 5W-40 Synthetic both list the JASO MA standard; this information can be found on the bottle adjacent to the SAE/API rating stamp. JASO is an acronym that stands for "The Japanese Automotive Standards Organization." Note that the 10W-30 conventional oil does not list JASO-MA.



Biobistheoilguy.com: Clarification on Rotella JASO-MA "Certification"



.
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1982 XJ1100J: "Baby" SS Brakes, '850 FD, ACCT
1980 XS1100G: "Columbo" SS Brakes, '850 FD, ACCT
1979 XS1100SF: "Bush" W.I.P.
2018 Heritage Softail Classic 117 FLHCS SE: "Nanuk"

Last edited by 3Phase; 07-04-2015 at 05:59 PM.
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Old 07-05-2015, 09:24 AM
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It's funny how it's lists by image that it is suitable for a tractor trailer, an agricultural tractor, an excavator and a pick up truck but there is no symbol for a motorcycle. I do realize that this probably has a lot to do with it not being compatible with all motorcycles or maybe some more than others. I run Delo 400 LE in my off road vehicles, I emailed them once and asked them if it was recommended for motorcycle use, they replied no. I don't want to fuel a motorcycle oil debate but here is how I look at it. There are 7 billion + people in this world and many of them worship in a different religion, and if you ask them they will tell that they are praying to the right god. So as I see it we can all be right when it comes to oil choices and brand loyalty. How's that for Sunday morning preaching?
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Old 07-05-2015, 01:11 PM
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Heretic!

Fortunately there is no faith required for engine oil because the decision is a simple Boolean true or false, yes or no, the spec is met or it is not met.

For Shell's Rotella there is no picture of a passenger car but the API agrees that Rotella meets the requirements for a grade M passenger car oil.

The Rotella label is not printed in German so how can anyone be certain that it really meets Mercedes Benz specification M-228.31?

There's nothing in Swedish so Dutch Shell's assertion that Rotella meets the requirements of their former (1658 to 1660) foe's Volvo VDS-4 should be taken with more than a few grains of salt.

Japanese? Iie! There go the JASO DH-2 and MA requirements.

Personally, I believe that Shell omitted the images of a car and a motorcycle not only because cars and motorcycles aren't the primary market for Rotella oil and there wasn't enough room on the label but also because some sad soul would see the motorcycle and then try to use it to anoint one of those Hellish 2-smoke engines.


By the way: Delo 400 LE has Moly as an additive.


.
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1982 XJ1100J: "Baby" SS Brakes, '850 FD, ACCT
1980 XS1100G: "Columbo" SS Brakes, '850 FD, ACCT
1979 XS1100SF: "Bush" W.I.P.
2018 Heritage Softail Classic 117 FLHCS SE: "Nanuk"
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Old 07-05-2015, 02:18 PM
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The UOA of Delo LE 15w-40 shows 72 ppm Moly. Not enough to do anything untoward based on using Delo for an OCI in the 80SG.

Mobil 1 15w-50 has 60 ppm Moly, Rotella 5w-40 has 62 ppm moly. Rotella 15w-40 has just a tiny amount of Moly, 1-2 ppm.

Super Tech 15w-40 has shown 47 ppm moly in a UOA, would expect the 20w-50 to be similar unless shown otherwise.

If that amount of moly is deemed to cause clutch issues, it's not the moly and there is a clutch problem, per se IMO.

Never in any bike I have owned has there been any clutch issue with any of the above oils. Bandit 1200S, ST1300, VStrom 1000, XS1100, Nighthawk 550, CX500, ZRX1200.
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Old 07-05-2015, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonz View Post
The UOA of Delo LE 15w-40 shows 72 ppm Moly. Not enough to do anything untoward based on using Delo for an OCI in the 80SG.

Mobil 1 15w-50 has 60 ppm Moly, Rotella 5w-40 has 62 ppm moly. Rotella 15w-40 has just a tiny amount of Moly, 1-2 ppm.

Super Tech 15w-40 has shown 47 ppm moly in a UOA, would expect the 20w-50 to be similar unless shown otherwise.

If that amount of moly is deemed to cause clutch issues, it's not the moly and there is a clutch problem, per se IMO.

Never in any bike I have owned has there been any clutch issue with any of the above oils. Bandit 1200S, ST1300, VStrom 1000, XS1100, Nighthawk 550, CX500, ZRX1200.
Hmm....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonz View Post
NO! If it does not have the energy conserving symbol, it has no friction modifier's, no matter what the oil. That is a fact and needs to be consistently understood as so.
I haven't had any moly or other friction modifier oil-based problems with my '80G clutch either, it just worked with every oil I used in it until the new springs put in during the first rebuild got weak and the cork wore out but that was mostly me doing naughty things to the clutch, not the oil.

Any oil that is not marked as "Energy Conserving" absolutely can contain friction modifiers because the "Energy Conserving" part of the API logo is not based upon the presence or absence of friction modifiers, it's based upon a comparison with a reference oil:-

api dot org's Oil and Natural Gas Overview: Look for the Products that Carry the API Quality Marks


Quote:
Energy Conserving and CI-4 PLUS Designations

The bottom of the donut tells whether the oil has energy conserving properties when compared with a reference oil in an engine test or if an oil meets CI-4 PLUS requirements.

Oils labeled as "Energy Conserving" have passed the test that measures an oil's ability to conserve energy. Widespread use of engine oils with this designation should result in an overall saving of fuel in the vehicle fleet as a whole, but a particular vehicle operator may not experience a fuel savings as a result of using these oils.

Used in conjunction with the CI-4 category, the "CI-4 PLUS" designation identifies oils formulated to provide a higher level of protection against soot-related viscosity increase and viscosity loss due to shear in diesel engines.
Just because it's off its little energy-conserving rocker doesn't mean an oil is moly-free.

.
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_____

1982 XJ1100J: "Baby" SS Brakes, '850 FD, ACCT
1980 XS1100G: "Columbo" SS Brakes, '850 FD, ACCT
1979 XS1100SF: "Bush" W.I.P.
2018 Heritage Softail Classic 117 FLHCS SE: "Nanuk"

Last edited by 3Phase; 07-05-2015 at 04:33 PM. Reason: Blind in one eye; can't see out of the other....
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  #15  
Old 07-05-2015, 09:09 PM
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Moly these days in oil is "oil soluble" and does not come out of suspension. And at the ppm concentrations we are talking about won't make a difference in a healthy clutch. Everything I have read vs myths that have been passed on by word of mouth says you have to be in the 500 ppm range for soluble moly to begin making an impact. Some would say 700 ppm is that threshold.

Energy conserving, as has been pointed out, is a broad definition that has a threshold of overall stuff to be added to the oil for it to meet that spec. Moly is the scapegoat of oil threads IMO, as 70 ppm is a minute amount such as Delo 400 LE.

Given most diesel oils we use in cycles are more or less the same in terms of content and additives when analyzed, simply knowing for example, Rotella 15w-40 Dino and 5w-40 Syn are JASO rated means any diesel oil with similar additive concentrations will be acceptable and fine in a motorcycle wet clutch.
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