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  #31  
Old 12-10-2007, 08:22 AM
planedick planedick is offline
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Timer too

In addition to counting pulses there is also a timer, supposed to be 10 sec. You can see the thing really easy. It's on the back of the speedo. A peice of plastic about 1" long and 1/4" wide and it just snaps in a slot and is easy to take out and look at without damaging it. Underneath it is the gears for the Odometer which need some grease now and then to keep them from wearing out. The motorcycle will outlast them if you don't lube 'em. The timer is somewhere else. According to the book, whichever comes first, number of pulses or timer, will cancel the flasher and according to the print it removes the ground from the flasher circute.
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  #32  
Old 12-10-2007, 10:40 AM
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Miti-Babe Miti-Babe is offline
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Hi Chris...

I see you still didn't get your question answered mate..

Here's how the unit works...

The XS1100 LHS handlebar switch has extra contacts that form part of the self cancelling turn-signals. These contacts connect to the self-cancelling unit (SCU). The SCU provides the earth connection for the Indicator Flasher Relay...

Once activated, the SCU will provide an earth to the flasher relay for about 150 yds or 10 secs... The distance is measured by open/closed switching of a small reed switch in the back of the speedo. The same magnet that drags the speedo needle around opens and closes the reed switch... The time function is built into the SCU...

So... Almost any 3-pin flasher relay will work with this system... The Brown wire is your +12V from the fusebox, the green/yellow wire is the earth (via the SCU) and the Brown/White wire is the Flasher Relay output to the indicator lamps (via the LHS switch).

If you fit a TOTALLY electronic Flasher Relay (no load dependance on it's output) and wire it up as stated above, it should work with LEDs... I would try to source a car Flasher Relay... In UK the electronic ones are often spec'd for both 2 or 4 indicators (for use when towing) and the case is marked 2 x 21w or 4 x 21W. Dunno how they're marked in Oz...

You can see an on-line copy of the E & G wiring diagram Here

Hope that helps mate...

Miti
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  #33  
Old 12-17-2007, 03:53 PM
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For all those trying to get the Cancel Feature working with LED Signal and Running Lights

I have my bike a part doing some work to get it ready for next summer and have installed LED running and Signal Lights. I want the cancel unit to work.

I know that the cancel unit counts front wheel revolutions with a sensor on the speedometer cable to determine distance travelled, I have not determined how the timer works, but I am concerned that it might count flash cycles from the signal at the C lead to the flasher relay. I won't know this until the spring. So this means the suggestions I have following might not work, but I will figure away to make it work.

To figure out how the Flasher relay works, I bought one from eBay to take a part. From experimentation I have discovered the following.


With Reference to the attached schematic - Figure 1

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2169/...fa123b060d.jpg


The flasher relay consists of a two coil relay and a single normally closed switch. A large value capacitor and a resistor located in the flasher case, the resistance of the coils and the lamp load determines the flash rate. The relay was designed for the lamp load of 57.4 watts. Figure 1 does not include the other details of the Cancel unit. It is noted that the cancel unit receives a signal from the handlebar switch and a pulse contact that is part of the speedometer.

At Rest State:
The Handle Bar switch is open no current flows through the flasher relay or signal lamps.

Initial State - just as the turn signal switch is activated by the rider:
The cancel unit receives a signal that the handlebar switch has been activated.

+12 volts is supplied through the ignition switch to Flasher terminal B, the signal lights are connect through the handle bar switch to flasher terminal L, Flasher Terminal C, the cancel signal, is open - not connected to plus 12.

Flashing State:
The handlebar switch attached to flasher L terminal closes to connect the selected signal lights to the flasher. Current flows from the battery connect at flasher terminal B through Coil 1 and the NC relay contacts to the signal lights and then to ground. The signal lights illuminate.

Almost immediately the relay contacts are pulled open by the magnetic field of Coil 1 and the lights extinguish. A 150 ohm resistor across the relay contacts allows a small amount of current (80ma) through Coil 1 to help maintain the magnetic field and hold the contacts open. This current with the charging current through Coil 2 from the Capacitor C1 is just enough to hold the contacts open. At the same time not enough current flows through the 150 ohm resistor to the lamps to illuminate them.

The charging current through Coil 2 assists to hold the magnetic field and the relay contacts remain open. As the capacitor charges, the charge current diminishes. When the charge current is insufficient to maintain the magnet field, the relays contacts return to closed. Current again flows through the contacts and the signal lights illuminate.

With the contacts now closed the capacitor discharges through coil 2, but the current flow and the magnetic field are opposite in direction of Coil 1 and this cancels the magnet filed created by Coil 1. The relay contacts remain closed for a moment until the current supplied by the discharging capacitor through Coil 2 is insufficient to counteract the magnet filed of Coil 1.

The flash sequence then repeats.

Cancel State:
The Cancel Circuit relies on the fact that the handlebar switches remain closed unless the rider resets it by pushing the handlebar switch. Resetting, by pushing the handlebar switch breaks the current and stops the flash cycle.

Selecting the alternate or same signal again also resets the cancel circuit through the handlebar contact connected to the Cancel Unit.

To automatically interrupt the flash cycle, the cancel circuit pulls the C terminal of the Flasher Relay to the battery voltage, bypassing the capacitor. With the continuous current through COIL2 the flasher relay contacts are held open and the signal lamps are no longer powered. However, around 80ma of current still flow through the 150 ohm resistor and another 170 ma flow through Coil2, which in total consumes about 3 watts of power.



LED Power Savings:
It should be noted that the Signal Lamp current does not really compromise battery life or alternator charging as the flash cycle are intermittent and only draw load on signalling. The battery provides the additional current required if the alternator cannot keep up. The alternator charges the battery when the flashing signal stops.

It's the running lights, which are part of the signal lamps and the running lights in the tail light that consume the power. The running lights are usually 8.3 watts , 2 front, 2 rear and 2 in the tail light is 49.8 watts. You should be able to replace the signal / running lamps with LED running lights that are 1.5 watts or less, which for the 6 bulbs, will only consume 9 watts, saving about 40 watts for other loads.

Since the Yamaha flasher circuit is tuned to the load of filament lamps (57.4 Watts), the Yamaha flasher relay will not work with LED lamps.


With Reference to the attached schematic - Figure 2

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2270/...d524b945a8.jpg

The Flasher relay can be replaced by an electronic type that does not rely on load current for the flash cycle. But the cancel feature will be lost.

However, providing the Cancel Circuit unit does not count flash cycles to determine the time period, a PNP transistor or alternately a small signal relay can be added in series with the Flasher to allow the Cancel Unit to stop the LED signal light flash cycle.

The PNP transistor or relay should be rated at a minimum 3 Amps, although actual current should be closer to 0.2 Amps.

PNP Transistor:
The PNP transistor is turned on by the two resistor R2 and R3 when the cancel unit is not active. R2 limits the current through the base of the transistor when the cancel unit is active and connects to +12 volts. R3 biases the transistor base to ground when the cancel unit is not active to turn it on.

Alternate 12 Volt Normally Closed Relay:
The transistor resistor circuit can be replaced by a normally closed signal relay, one that activates with 30ma or less of current.

The normally closed contacts allow the electronic flashers to work until the Yamaha Cancel Circuit sources current to the relay causing the contacts to open and stop the flasher.
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  #34  
Old 12-18-2007, 03:49 AM
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I sat down and did the same thing, pulling one apart but could not have explained it all the way you did.....
Or come up with a way to use the auto cancel with LED's.
Very clever fella
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  #35  
Old 05-15-2010, 01:25 PM
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RODS454 RODS454 is offline
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cancel

OK, this is all great, but can someone who has actually done this just tell us what parts to get and where, how to install them? With pics of course. Am I asking to much?
Thanks, RODS454
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  #36  
Old 05-15-2010, 01:37 PM
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WMarshy WMarshy is offline
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Sorry, I didnt read all the posts... I went to Auto Zone and got a after market flasher and have been using it for a year now. I dont use LED's so IDK if it would work with them or not (thats why I appologized ahead of time).

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32CP-MAX6
"Heavy Duty Flasher"

2 Prong flasher, buy it and try it, it only works one way, you lose self cancel but you never have to worry that it will shut off early.
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  #37  
Old 05-15-2010, 05:28 PM
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auxtian auxtian is offline
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Blinker relay

You need a blinker relay that does not need a load
This bloke is in Australia but it will give you an idea about what you need.
I just put a low current relay where the cutoff from the cancel unit was.

http://www.ledshoponline.com/electro...asher_cans.htm

http://xs1100.com.au/forum
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  #38  
Old 05-15-2010, 07:15 PM
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Hey

I made the Cancel flasher similar to whats I described above in 2008. I have a few available. Drop me a line.

Ted
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  #39  
Old 05-16-2010, 11:32 AM
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I found 5 extra ones yeasterday after I bought one off e-Bay for $15.00. If you need one PM me.
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