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  #16  
Old 02-26-2011, 03:45 PM
crazy steve crazy steve is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b.walker5 View Post
Didnt someone a while back come up with a method of fitting a resistor to the flasher circuit to retain the self cancelling feature when fitting led's? I seem to remember reading something about it somewhere. Might not have been here, but in any event it shouldnt be that hard to do. With my electrician hat on I might have a play and see what happens. Just over morning coffee, and without really studying it, I'm thinking some sort of series, parrellel circuit that retains full voltage to the leds but provides enough resistance to make the flasher work. There must be a way.
You can buy 'load equalizers' for this, although they're pretty pricey. All you need is a 6 ohm resistor in parallel with each LED replacement (a 3 ohm if you replace f/r, a 2.5 ohm if you do both and the indicator). I don't know if you could just put this in line with the flasher, or if you'd have to do each side by itself because of the canceller unit.

And before you rush off to radio shack, bear in mind these can get hot, so don't use one rated for less than 25 watts, 50 watts would be much better, with a 100 watt unit being bullerprooof. These will be dissapating the equivilent wattage as heat, so a 25 watt 6 ohm resistor for a 27 watt load will be operating above 100%. Also don't install it where it could melt anything in contact with it...

But if you're doing this to 'save power', don't; you'll be using the same amount, just in a different way. To save amps, you'll have to give up the self-cancel feature.
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  #17  
Old 02-26-2011, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by natemoen View Post
But when you put the resistor in you are then creating the same load on the electrical system as the incandescent lightbulb, thus negating the purpose of using led lights in the first place, so there is no point.
Depends on why you want led's, for saving power or bright lights. Personally I dont have issues with the current load at present, I would only do it for having bright lamps that are going to be seen.

and, what resistance is needed to make the flasher work? It might be much less than we think.
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  #18  
Old 02-26-2011, 05:13 PM
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Steve has that all covered above.
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  #19  
Old 02-26-2011, 05:30 PM
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If one of you can get me a schematic, or at least a detailed block diagram with the voltages being used, I could look into a good solution for this.

I would need to know how the canceling circuit works mainly - the impedance of the leds can be adjusted with some resistors, which btw, you should ALWAYS have resistors in the circuit to adjust the voltages so you don't blow your leds (most of the aftermarket led signals probably have a protection circuit built in already). However, there is probably some kind of feedback on that 3rd lead that would need to be artificially manipulated. I'm not sure of the details since I'm really new to this but let me know. I'll give it a shot.
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  #20  
Old 02-26-2011, 06:17 PM
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OK, on my XJ I replaced tail/brake with LED and no problems except I used red and had to add lic.plate lights which are also LED. I used the bolt type lights. My rear directionals are both LED but front are still standard bulbs. Flashers, includes 4 way, work great. I never had self canceling feature work but I can turn them off manually, I am mildly talented that way I too would like LED in my gauge cluster but haven't found the bulbs I like yet. Good luck and happy motoring.
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  #21  
Old 02-26-2011, 06:27 PM
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I have replaced all lamps including dash backlight, oil, neutral, tail/stop, turns and running lamps with LEDs. Self cancel feature worked intermittently to start with, so I don't miss it. I went with the green LEDs for the cluster backlighing and I love it. The only thing I didn't like was the turn indicators, the LED bulbs just weren't bright enough to see in the daylight so I returned them to incans. Of course, the headlamp is still incandescent, untill the price on that 7 inch round milspec LED headlamp that NAPA carries comes down.
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  #22  
Old 02-26-2011, 07:12 PM
crazy steve crazy steve is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XrazorwireX View Post
If one of you can get me a schematic, or at least a detailed block diagram with the voltages being used, I could look into a good solution for this..
Ken, the problem with the stock canceller unit is there isn't any info on its internal workings; it's just a 'magic box'. It accepts a signal from the switch, powers up the flasher, then after doing a time/distance calc from the speedo input, disconnects the flasher. It doesn't help that the flasher is also an oddball unit, without an apparent exchange with any other 'standard' flasher.

Function? Pretty simple really, you move the handlebar switch to either left or right (maintained contacts for the lights, momentary for the canceller), the canceller gets a signal from the switch via the red/yellow wire (which goes to ground), and the canceller enables the flasher via the yellow/green wire. The big problem is if the canceller sees any other load other than the OEM flasher/lamps, it won't cancel. If you can figure out a way to mimic the load the canceller sees on the yellow/green wire, you could possibly install a different 3-wire flasher and use any signals you want, without resorting to any 'load' resistors.

So I guess the question is, what exactly is the difference between the OEM flasher (and the load it puts on the canceller) and a 'standard' 3-wire flasher? If you swap to a 2-wire flasher, you're bypassing the canceller altogether, so that's not the solution.
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'78E original owner - resto project
'78E ???? owner - Modder project FJ forks, 4-piston calipers F/R, 160/80-16 rear tire
'82 XJ rebuild project
'80SG restified, red SOLD
'79F parts...
'81H more parts...

Other current bikes:
'93 XL1200 Anniversary Sportster 85RWHP
'86 XL883/1200 Chopper
'82 XL1000 w/1450cc Buell, Baker 6-speed, in-progress project
Cage: '13 Mustang GT/CS with a few 'custom' touches
Yep, can't leave nuthin' alone...
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  #23  
Old 02-26-2011, 07:36 PM
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I, too, went full LED conversion on tail/brake lights, turn signals, green gauge lights, license lights, high beam indicator, neutral, but regular for fuel light due to small power leak with special sensor so led would not work...was lit all the time. Also, use regular in the turn indicators....but I just forgot about them when I was replacing the others, along with the OIL since it's only on until the engine is started. I have electronic/mechanical combo flasher, and think that with the regular dash indicators provides enough load to work the electronic flasher with led signals front and rear. I also never used the self cancel...always turned it off when I made the turns, so never missed it.

One of our members came up with a flasher that would work with LEDs and maintain the self cancel feature. I can't remember his name at the moment, have it in my desk upstairs. He sent me one for a test, and it worked as a flasher just fine, but I don't have an OEM speedo with the reed switch/signal for the self cancel feature, so I couldn't report on the self cancel part of it's function. He didn't post much about it, so I don't know if he gave up on possibly making them for folks here??

Razor, there are wiring diagrams on this site. Most of the voltages on our bikes are 12 volts, just a few special circuits like the ignition coils on the 78-80 machines.

All this was to free up a few amps so I could drive a pair of 55 watt Aux driving lights. However, now after I've done the Alternative Alternator MOD, I won't have to worry about having enough power!

T.C.
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  #24  
Old 02-26-2011, 10:27 PM
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I noticed some people elsewhere talking about switching over to different relays; I'm not sure if the wiring diagram is exact and the relay is built into the switch assy. or if there's a relay inline somewhere...

I don't have a garage and my bikes under a tarp right now because it snowed hard but once it clears I'll take a look.
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  #25  
Old 02-26-2011, 11:48 PM
crazy steve crazy steve is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XrazorwireX View Post
I noticed some people elsewhere talking about switching over to different relays; I'm not sure if the wiring diagram is exact and the relay is built into the switch assy. or if there's a relay inline somewhere...
There's relays, but they're for the headlight and unrelated to the turn signals. The canceller unit acts as a latching relay, supplying the input to the flasher. The speedo input 'unlatches' it, or you can manually disconnect the lights out of the circuit by pushing the switch.
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'78E original owner - resto project
'78E ???? owner - Modder project FJ forks, 4-piston calipers F/R, 160/80-16 rear tire
'82 XJ rebuild project
'80SG restified, red SOLD
'79F parts...
'81H more parts...

Other current bikes:
'93 XL1200 Anniversary Sportster 85RWHP
'86 XL883/1200 Chopper
'82 XL1000 w/1450cc Buell, Baker 6-speed, in-progress project
Cage: '13 Mustang GT/CS with a few 'custom' touches
Yep, can't leave nuthin' alone...
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  #26  
Old 03-02-2011, 09:02 PM
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Led Bulbs

All the globes on my XS are LED except the headlight.
Even the instrument lights.
As for the relay just get one that does not need a load
http://www.ledshoponline.com/electro...asher_cans.htm
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  #27  
Old 03-02-2011, 11:07 PM
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I also came across a replacement relay on ebay for led flashers but I haven't gotten inside my bike to see if it would apply yet - thanks for confirming this.
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  #28  
Old 03-03-2011, 01:19 AM
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I see.
So to run LEDs in everything (but headlamp), I need a no-load flasher to replace the regular flasher. This will give me turn signal blinking but at the loss of auto-cancel (which I have decided isnt worth keeping).
Then the appropriate bulb "types" (1156, 1157...).
Does this mean the Flasher Cancelling Unit stays on the bike or it gets trashed?
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  #29  
Old 03-03-2011, 06:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshirt View Post
I see.
So to run LEDs in everything (but headlamp), I need a no-load flasher to replace the regular flasher. This will give me turn signal blinking but at the loss of auto-cancel (which I have decided isnt worth keeping).
Then the appropriate bulb "types" (1156, 1157...).
Does this mean the Flasher Cancelling Unit stays on the bike or it gets trashed?
Yes, for leds you would need a 2 prong electronic flasher for the turn signals. The brake light bulbs are 1157, and the signals would be 1156 if the are not set up as running light, and 1157 if thee are set up as running lights.

If you have the OEM flasher and your self cancelers work, don't toss the flasher. Send it to someone who wants it, like me
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1978 XS1100E
K&N Filter
#45 pilot Jet, #137.5 Main Jet
OEM Exhaust
ATK Fork Brace
LED Dash lights
Ammeter, Oil Pressure, Oil Temp, and Volt Meters

Green Monster Coils
SS Brake Lines
Vision 550 Auto Tensioner

In any moment of decision the best thing you can do is the right thing, the next best thing is the wrong thing, and the worst thing you can do is nothing.

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  #30  
Old 03-03-2011, 07:46 AM
crazy steve crazy steve is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshirt View Post
Does this mean the Flasher Cancelling Unit stays on the bike or it gets trashed?
You can leave or remove the canceller unit, it doesn't matter.
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Fast, Cheap, Reliable... Pick any two

'78E original owner - resto project
'78E ???? owner - Modder project FJ forks, 4-piston calipers F/R, 160/80-16 rear tire
'82 XJ rebuild project
'80SG restified, red SOLD
'79F parts...
'81H more parts...

Other current bikes:
'93 XL1200 Anniversary Sportster 85RWHP
'86 XL883/1200 Chopper
'82 XL1000 w/1450cc Buell, Baker 6-speed, in-progress project
Cage: '13 Mustang GT/CS with a few 'custom' touches
Yep, can't leave nuthin' alone...
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