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Old 01-18-2010, 10:25 PM
ShannonFLHI ShannonFLHI is offline
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White smoke and oil?

Ok guys, I'm the newbie and I'm finally got to work on the xs1100 today. This was my expected quick fix $500 tinker toy I picked up. Yeah right.

I knew it had a oil leak due to oil all over the headers. I just put a valve cover gasket on it so no leaks there any more.

I got it to start and all was good till it warmed up. It started to blow lots of white smoke. I figured it could be the stale gas, so I took it for a 10 min jaunt.

On take off and any hard acceleration it make my weed eater some eco friendly.

I'm gonna drain the oil and refill to correct level tomorrow. The sight gas looked full.

She is leaking oil again. It all started to run out of what I believe to be the air box. once I turned off the bike and put it up on the center stand. The oil just started to run out what looks like a drain hole, located on the bottom of the plastic box between the rear tire and the carbs.

Any advice on what and why?

I need to source a dealer manual for this.
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  #2  
Old 01-18-2010, 11:37 PM
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The first thing we need to know is what year and model you have. If you don't know, the frame or engine number will let us know. White smoke is usually gas, not oil. I feel you may have a carb problem, and NOT an oil leak problem.
If you post your location, there may be a member close by who can have a quick look, and maybe a little help for some liquid refreshment.
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  #3  
Old 01-18-2010, 11:54 PM
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The symptoms you are describing are much like what I experienced when I first picked up Tsunami. The PO did not know any better, and had topped up the oil to the level of the bottom of the filler hole, much like you would do with a lawn mower.

Once I found the sight glass on the right side of the engine, and took out many litres of oil until the level came down to the appropriate lines (with the bike on the centrestand, not the sidestand), the white smoke situation and problem with oil dripping out of the airbox went away.
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  #4  
Old 01-19-2010, 01:56 AM
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Hi Shannon and welcome aboard.
Identify your model by finding the serial number on the steering tube and/or the engine block (they should match) and then going here... http://www.xs11.com/faqs/153-serial-...ry-colors.html then look for any post by Catatonic Bug and follow the link in his signature and you will find all the manuals you need.
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  #5  
Old 01-19-2010, 04:22 AM
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Have you checked that the overfilled oil level is not gas in the oil? These bikes are notorious for the carb float bowls leaking and gas getting into the oil. It will also cause the bike to run very rich and could be the smoke your seeing.
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  #6  
Old 01-19-2010, 04:31 AM
XSokieSPECIAL XSokieSPECIAL is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShannonFLHI View Post
Ok guys, I'm the newbie and I'm finally got to work on the xs1100 today. This was my expected quick fix $500 tinker toy I picked up. Yeah right.

I knew it had a oil leak due to oil all over the headers. I just put a valve cover gasket on it so no leaks there any more.

I got it to start and all was good till it warmed up. It started to blow lots of white smoke. I figured it could be the stale gas, so I took it for a 10 min jaunt.

On take off and any hard acceleration it make my weed eater some eco friendly.

I'm gonna drain the oil and refill to correct level tomorrow. The sight gas looked full.

She is leaking oil again. It all started to run out of what I believe to be the air box. once I turned off the bike and put it up on the center stand. The oil just started to run out what looks like a drain hole, located on the bottom of the plastic box between the rear tire and the carbs.

Any advice on what and why?

I need to source a dealer manual for this.


ShannonFLHI, welcome to the forum. You came to the right place for adviceit flows freely here.

Yup... sounds just like what happend to me when I first got mine running.

The PO had way overfilled the crankcase and on accelleration it was blowing oil right up the breather tubes inside the airbox right into the carbs.

Smokes like crazy, good top end oiling though.

Change the oil and refill it to the proper level in the sight glass with the bike on the centerstand. Or leveled somehow, not on the sidestand or you'll overfill it again.

Be sure to get the proper type of oil to run with that wet clutch or you will have clutch slippage problems. There are varying opinions on what oil to use I use Castrol 20W50 4 stroke MC oil. A little more expensive but it solved a lot of clutch problems for me.
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  #7  
Old 01-19-2010, 08:13 AM
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TomRodgers TomRodgers is offline
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Welcome!!!

As others have stated, lots of advice here....From novice to expert (and the experts tend to correct/elaborate on the novice's)

Upon aquiring 'Ghost, first move was to drain and replace all the fluids...didnt wanna take a chance with gas/water/funk being in the oil. It seems that due to it being cool outside, it took oh, id say, about 14-16 pints of Guiness for all the oil to drain out

when i went to add the oil, i did so with it NOT on the center stand, and kept fillin her up!! until i saw oil in the glass.....big mistake...

Well, dumbass me fired it up, rode around, and when it started smoking, bucking and acting like a spaz, i parked it and the airfilter box was oooozing oil. filter was drenched. not much air was getting in, and it ran like **** for a couple of days.....(after taking oil out)... She stank like sh!t for a few days as well..... but all better now.
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  #8  
Old 01-19-2010, 08:21 AM
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CatatonicBug CatatonicBug is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Talbot View Post
The symptoms you are describing are much like what I experienced when I first picked up Tsunami. The PO did not know any better, and had topped up the oil to the level of the bottom of the filler hole, much like you would do with a lawn mower.

Once I found the sight glass on the right side of the engine, and took out many litres of oil until the level came down to the appropriate lines (with the bike on the centrestand, not the sidestand), the white smoke situation and problem with oil dripping out of the airbox went away.
I concur. I have always known white smoke to be caused by burning oil. Black smoke is non-oil-related. Now, how the oil is getting burnt is the thing to find out. If you're getting oil in the airbox, it is most likely being pushed up through the vent hose because there is too much oil in the case. These engines don't like to be over-filled, and vomit like that when they are.

The oil in the airbox could then be getting sucked through the intake, and be burnt along with the gas, causing the white smoke. Of course, fuel having drained through the carbs, and into the oil pan is possible too, and can be checked by attemting to light some of your oil on fire. Dip a stick into your oil, and try to light it. If it lights easily, you have fuel in the oil. That is a very bad thing. It destroys bearings and things.

I would start with the oil change, and make sure you don't over-fill it, as others have said. Clean out the air filter too. If the smoke does not go away after a little bit, then there is something else going on. Oil can build up inside the pipes, and burn for a while after the oil leak is fixed, but it does go away.

If you still need a manual, the link in my signature will lead you to my website, where I host a bunch of stuff like that. Good luck, and welcome aboard! Oh, and we like pictures too!
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  #9  
Old 01-19-2010, 06:11 PM
XSokieSPECIAL XSokieSPECIAL is offline
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Bty

Clean or replace the spark plugs they will most likely be oil fouled and you'll have a misfire.
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  #10  
Old 01-24-2010, 12:57 AM
ShannonFLHI ShannonFLHI is offline
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OK, here's what I found.
Frame and eng # match. Bike is a 1980 xs100sg.
Drained the oil and refilled to correct level. I decided to clean and oil in air box, so off + out that came.
Bad news. The mesh screen filter was oil soaked, the box had lots of oil and metal chunks in it on the bottom I mean these chunks varied in size. Most were 3mm X 3mm in size and smaller. The throttle venturies had fine metal filings all over them.
My neighbor thinks piston rings and or cylinder walls are shot.
What would be my next step??

Last edited by ShannonFLHI; 01-24-2010 at 01:00 AM.
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Old 01-24-2010, 04:33 AM
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Ivan Ivan is offline
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A set of jugs and pistons from an 80, 81 or an 82(XJ) are pretty easy to find on ebay on the cheap. First, though, I would definitely send Andreasweiss a PM. Andreas parts out XS11s and will usually beat ebay prices. If all that leads to naught, send out a request in the parts wanted section.

Replacing the jugs on these, doesn't look like that big of a chore. I haven't done it my self, but its about the only thing I haven't. I have split the case (thanks to some excellent leadership from TRBig, who makes it look like the engine has a zipper in it in stead of bolts) and rebuilt the transmission. I have changed cams, and pulled the head, which can be done without breaking the cam chain, so the only thing left is pulling the jugs. From what I hear the can be a pain to work loose from the block, and one member fabbed up a hook and bracket that reached down inside the case and pulled the jugs loose by putting force on the cylinder studs.

I know TRBig has done this, so he probably has a trick or two that can help out.

The best thing (amongst thousands of best things) about the XS11 is their simplicity. Anyone that knows which way to turn a bolt can fix them with a little help from this site.

Oh, if you have the scratch, there is a 1200cc big bore kit available from Wiseco. New pistons and rings. Pricey and you have to get the jugs machined to fit the pistons. I will have one some day.
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Old 01-24-2010, 10:54 AM
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cywelchjr cywelchjr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShannonFLHI View Post
OK, here's what I found.
Frame and eng # match. Bike is a 1980 xs100sg.
Drained the oil and refilled to correct level. I decided to clean and oil in air box, so off + out that came.
Bad news. The mesh screen filter was oil soaked, the box had lots of oil and metal chunks in it on the bottom I mean these chunks varied in size. Most were 3mm X 3mm in size and smaller. The throttle venturies had fine metal filings all over them.
My neighbor thinks piston rings and or cylinder walls are shot.
What would be my next step??
I would start with a compression test with correct oil level and clean filter etc (I would clean the crud out of the carbs too).

Then if the compression is ok (like somewhere close to the 145 it's supposed to be) I would start it up and see if it smokes after another short ride (with oil everywhere you need to work it out).
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  #13  
Old 01-24-2010, 02:44 PM
Larrym Larrym is offline
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I second the "I would start with a compression test with correct oil level and clean filter etc (I would clean the crud out of the carbs too)."

Oil level checked with the bike on the center stand or with the bike level.

The oil filter should be looked at. I've seen them deteriorated and torn. They can't filter much if there's a big rip in the paper element. Also verify that the filter/cup/spring/washer/bolt is all there. Twice I've found the washer which fits in between the spring and the filter missing. Once I found the spring missing too.

All the oil which goes into the filter is first screened at the oil pump. So although you may have had chunks of metal and fine shavings in the oil, for the most part these nasties settle to the bottom of the crankcase. Only when an oil overfill occurs do they get all stirred up to the point where they move around and in your case get ejected through the breather tube.

I'd seriously take a look at the oil you are about to drain out. Not the oil itself but rather the debris/metal left behind at the bottom of the drain pan. The quantity and the quality of it. ( Pics would help us to see what you see...)

The first XS I owned was the winner of the dirtiest oil/filter I had ever seen in my life. Seriously! This was due to the fact that the PO installed a 4 into 1 exhaust which obstructed the oil filter/drain plug. To do an oil change the exhaust header had to be removed...each time. (Obviously something that the PO refused to do..)

Hopefully, (fingers crossed), the bike upchucked oil into the airbox cause of an overfill condition and that's not fatal. Compression test should provide you with the info needed to determine if anything sealing the combustion chambers is wonky.
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  #14  
Old 01-24-2010, 06:32 PM
tarzan tarzan is offline
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Wow, I've never heard of metal chips coming up through the crankcase vent tube.Is there any other possible explanation as to where the chunks came from?

I too would run a compression test.If that looks good,I would drain the oil to see if there is metal down there.

If it you have to remove the cylinders, it isn't too bad.I just finished reassembling mine from a top end tear down and freshen up.Although my
cylinders came off easily, a few people here have had a bugger of a time removing them.
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Old 01-24-2010, 06:55 PM
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Neighbor got X-ray vision?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShannonFLHI View Post
OK, here's what I found.
Frame and eng # match. Bike is a 1980 xs100sg.
Drained the oil and refilled to correct level. I decided to clean and oil in air box, so off + out that came.
Bad news. The mesh screen filter was oil soaked, the box had lots of oil and metal chunks in it on the bottom I mean these chunks varied in size. Most were 3mm X 3mm in size and smaller. The throttle venturies had fine metal filings all over them.
My neighbor thinks piston rings and or cylinder walls are shot.
What would be my next step??
Hi Shannon and welcome,
in addition to all the good advice already posted, first, take off the carbs, (if they are full of debris they need cleaning anyway) then do a compression test.
Carb removal lets the test work well. Pull all the plugs, test each cylinder in turn letting the engine turn over about 8 or 10 turns.
Even if you get low numbers, do not despair. If the machine has sat idle for years the rings could be stuck in their grooves and will more than likely free themselves after a few weeks of riding.
You didn't say, did you check the drained-out oil for debris?
Did you check the airbox debris with a magnet?
Mind you, your neighbor may be right but until the head is removed, nobody knows for sure.
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