Home arrow Forums



Go Back   XS11.com Forums > Idle Talk Forum > XS11/XJ11 Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-19-2012, 07:10 PM
mikubuilder mikubuilder is offline
XSive Maximus
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Westland, Mich.
Posts: 548
does it sound like my TCI is bad?

OK here is my problem:
I got my bike running a few weeks ago, but I had some issues with fuel line and petcocks leaking, so I ran it for maybe 5 miles total.
It was really hard to start, but if I twisted the throttle it warmed up just fine and was running OK(first on choke, then without)
I also had some issues with oil, then gas coming out of airbox, but I got it all squared away(yes, I did change the oil )
now I go to start it up again, and it running rough, and no spark on #2 and #3...coils right?
well, I started to check meticulously, pick up coils(look brand new)

resistance 720 Ohm by backprobing, and also at the plug to TCI...

ignition coils 1.5 Ohm on primary, 15k secondary, caps 5.2k each...WTH

orange and gray wires 11.5V at TCI and at the ignition coil???

am I on the right track, or did I miss something?
__________________
Nick

1979 XS11 F,Yamaha fairings w/hard bags, TC's fuse box, K&N air filter

1982 Virago 750 (it's alive!)

1979 XS 11 F, Windjammer IV, Samsonite luggage cases(another rescue)
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-19-2012, 07:51 PM
bikerphil's Avatar
bikerphil bikerphil is offline
Master of XSology
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Broward County, S. Flori-DUH
Posts: 7,479
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikubuilder View Post
did I miss something?
Your timing plate and bolt are missing . Did you tug on those pick up coil wires when checking with the ohm meter? The TCI's rarely go bad.
__________________



79F - owned since '89 - FJ fork mod, solo seat mod, Dyna 3Ω's, 14MM M/C (158K miles)
79SF - every day rider, solo seat mod, Brembo 16MM M/C, Accel 3Ω's, Supertrapp (115K miles)

"If it ain't broke, modify it"

25+ year XS11 owner


Last edited by bikerphil; 09-19-2012 at 07:53 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-19-2012, 08:14 PM
TopCatGr58's Avatar
TopCatGr58 TopCatGr58 is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Portsmouth, Va.
Posts: 12,619
Hey there Miku,

As Phil says, the TCI's rarely go bad, but you CAN have corrosion build up on the plugs/connectors for the TCI, but also the internal solder joints INSIDE The TCI can corrode/break down, and folks have resweated them with success. You'll want to do some other diagnostics to ensure that the signals are being read at the TCI plug/connector and such. Also folks suggest swapping the 2-3 coil with the 1-4 coil, plug wires to other plugs, as well as the Orang/grey wires and then retest. If 2-3 stays with no spark, but 1-4 still gets spark, then you know it isn't the ignition coil, but something else.

T.C.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-19-2012, 08:30 PM
mikubuilder mikubuilder is offline
XSive Maximus
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Westland, Mich.
Posts: 548
well, the TCI is not original to the bike, I bought of fleabay ,so it was always a questionable one...

I guess I could swap coils and plugs, to double check, but according to manual it would be TCI as I did all the checks to ignition coils as well as pick up coils

I cleaned all connectors and used graphite grease that I use in my welding rotating connectors(Tweeco but I don't remember part number), and all connections check out fine, both for resistance and voltage...

I sent money to Lee Dutcher for a known working TCI, so I guess until I get it I can try all the other tricks
__________________
Nick

1979 XS11 F,Yamaha fairings w/hard bags, TC's fuse box, K&N air filter

1982 Virago 750 (it's alive!)

1979 XS 11 F, Windjammer IV, Samsonite luggage cases(another rescue)
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-19-2012, 08:33 PM
Rasputin's Avatar
Rasputin Rasputin is offline
XS-XJ Super Guru
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Lacombe, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 3,121
Do you have access to a fax machine right now?
Color machine is better.
__________________
2-79 XS1100 SF
2-78 XS1100 E Best bike Ever
80 XS 1100 SG Big bore kit but not fully running yet.
Couple of more parts bikes of which 2 more will live!
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-19-2012, 08:36 PM
mikubuilder mikubuilder is offline
XSive Maximus
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Westland, Mich.
Posts: 548
couple more things that I have noticed:

with ignition on, and not running orange and gray wires at TCI both have about 11.5 V, but when I start the engine voltage drops to 3V on orange and 5.5V on gray...does that seam normal? I thought it should drop to 9 V or something like that....
__________________
Nick

1979 XS11 F,Yamaha fairings w/hard bags, TC's fuse box, K&N air filter

1982 Virago 750 (it's alive!)

1979 XS 11 F, Windjammer IV, Samsonite luggage cases(another rescue)
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-19-2012, 08:39 PM
Rasputin's Avatar
Rasputin Rasputin is offline
XS-XJ Super Guru
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Lacombe, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 3,121
It can be normal if you are testing it correctly. You have to have the older style swinging needle tester to get the right results. I have the info here but no way other than a fax to get it to you anytime soon. If you have a fax number PM it to me and i will send it.
__________________
2-79 XS1100 SF
2-78 XS1100 E Best bike Ever
80 XS 1100 SG Big bore kit but not fully running yet.
Couple of more parts bikes of which 2 more will live!
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-19-2012, 08:44 PM
Rasputin's Avatar
Rasputin Rasputin is offline
XS-XJ Super Guru
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Lacombe, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 3,121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasputin View Post
It can be normal if you are testing it correctly. You have to have the older style swinging needle tester to get the right results. I have the info here but no way other than a fax to get it to you anytime soon. If you have a fax number PM it to me and i will send it.
Correction... My wife just informed me that the Fax is broken. Sorry. I will try to copy and paste or something in the meantime.
__________________
2-79 XS1100 SF
2-78 XS1100 E Best bike Ever
80 XS 1100 SG Big bore kit but not fully running yet.
Couple of more parts bikes of which 2 more will live!
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-19-2012, 08:52 PM
mikubuilder mikubuilder is offline
XSive Maximus
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Westland, Mich.
Posts: 548
LOL no fax here, I have one at work, will PM you tomorrow...can you paraphrase? and no, I don't have an analog meter
__________________
Nick

1979 XS11 F,Yamaha fairings w/hard bags, TC's fuse box, K&N air filter

1982 Virago 750 (it's alive!)

1979 XS 11 F, Windjammer IV, Samsonite luggage cases(another rescue)
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-19-2012, 08:59 PM
Rasputin's Avatar
Rasputin Rasputin is offline
XS-XJ Super Guru
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Lacombe, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 3,121
This is stolen, borrowed or even plagarized from Randy's site before it went away. It does require an analog meter as the dimm's do not show the swing of the needle that is required to test it. maybe you can borrow one from someone real old who may still have one...lol.

Using a voltmeter set on 12VDC, connect the positive meter lead to the Orange or Grey coil lead at the TCI. Connect the negative meter lead to the black (negative) lead at the TCI. Turn on the ignition. Voltage should come right up to about 10 - 11VDC. Crank the ignition and observe the meter. Look for a wide voltage swing during cranking. A strong swing indicates that the pickups and TCI are working OK and your trouble is between the TCI and the plugs. Possibly a bad ballast resistor, bad coil, bad plug cap or just corroded connections. Repeat this test for both Orange and Grey coil leads.
__________________
2-79 XS1100 SF
2-78 XS1100 E Best bike Ever
80 XS 1100 SG Big bore kit but not fully running yet.
Couple of more parts bikes of which 2 more will live!
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 09-19-2012, 09:17 PM
ViperRon's Avatar
ViperRon ViperRon is offline
XS-XJ Guru
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Woodstock, VA
Posts: 1,056
As TC said previously swap coils and plugs before you go too far on the TCI failure road. Expecially if you have Champion plugs. You had flooding issues at first and even if they were new I have had fuel cold foul plugs. They can get real intermittant also. Testing with a meter is good but since you have 2 nearly complete ignition systems swapping is a tried and true method.
__________________
To fix the problem one should not make more assumptions than the minimum needed.

Rodan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khm6...liHntN91DHjHiS
1980 G Silverbird
Original Yamaha Fairfing and Bags
1198 Overbore kit
Grizzly 660 ACCT
Barnett Clutch Springs
R1 Clutch Fiber Plates
122.5 Main Jets
ACCT Mod
Mac 4-2 Flare Tips
Antivibe Bar ends
Rear trunk add-on
http://s1184.photobucket.com/albums/z329/viperron1/
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 09-20-2012, 05:17 AM
natemoen's Avatar
natemoen natemoen is offline
Master of XSology
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Fargo
Posts: 8,616
It was asked by someone but never answered. Did you tug and pull on the pickup coil wires? You need to.
__________________
Nathan
KD9ARL

μολὼν λαβέ

1978 XS1100E
K&N Filter
#45 pilot Jet, #137.5 Main Jet
OEM Exhaust
ATK Fork Brace
LED Dash lights
Ammeter, Oil Pressure, Oil Temp, and Volt Meters

Green Monster Coils
SS Brake Lines
Vision 550 Auto Tensioner

In any moment of decision the best thing you can do is the right thing, the next best thing is the wrong thing, and the worst thing you can do is nothing.

Theodore Roosevelt
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 09-20-2012, 09:30 AM
mikubuilder mikubuilder is offline
XSive Maximus
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Westland, Mich.
Posts: 548
I did tug on all pickup coil wires with no avail...all ignition wires were trimmed and they all check out with multimeter, as well as all caps( I even switched them around)
one more thing I noticed that might help:
when I get bike running on 2 cylinders(full choke), and rest a connected spark plug on a engine, there is no spark....but when I hit a kill switch, there is one spark at the end....what would that mean?
__________________
Nick

1979 XS11 F,Yamaha fairings w/hard bags, TC's fuse box, K&N air filter

1982 Virago 750 (it's alive!)

1979 XS 11 F, Windjammer IV, Samsonite luggage cases(another rescue)
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 09-20-2012, 10:41 AM
DAVINCI DAVINCI is offline
XS-XJ Guru
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Cedar Mountain, NC
Posts: 1,046
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasputin View Post
This is stolen, borrowed or even plagarized from Randy's site before it went away. It does require an analog meter as the dimm's do not show the swing of the needle that is required to test it. maybe you can borrow one from someone real old who may still have one...lol.

Using a voltmeter set on 12VDC, connect the positive meter lead to the Orange or Grey coil lead at the TCI. Connect the negative meter lead to the black (negative) lead at the TCI. Turn on the ignition. Voltage should come right up to about 10 - 11VDC. Crank the ignition and observe the meter. Look for a wide voltage swing during cranking. A strong swing indicates that the pickups and TCI are working OK and your trouble is between the TCI and the plugs. Possibly a bad ballast resistor, bad coil, bad plug cap or just corroded connections. Repeat this test for both Orange and Grey coil leads.
Good one, rasputin!

BTW, if you don't have an analog meter, you can use an incandescent test light instead.

Yup, sounds to me like you need to re-sweat those solder joints for the 2-3 coils, INSIDE the TCI.

BTW, this is RANDY, under a different name. Long story. Here are the pins to re-solder:

pay particular attention to the two pins on the left, bottom one is for coil 2-3 (GRAY), the top one is for coil 1-4 (ORANGE).

Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 09-20-2012, 05:33 PM
mikubuilder mikubuilder is offline
XSive Maximus
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Westland, Mich.
Posts: 548
thanks Randy, I know your new nick and was hoping you would chime in, as you're most experienced with our black boxes...will give it a shot
__________________
Nick

1979 XS11 F,Yamaha fairings w/hard bags, TC's fuse box, K&N air filter

1982 Virago 750 (it's alive!)

1979 XS 11 F, Windjammer IV, Samsonite luggage cases(another rescue)
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:03 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Integrated by BBpixel ©2004-2019, jvbPlugin